Go Back    Forum > Digital Video > Video Project Help > Capture, Record, Transfer

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
06-18-2022, 10:12 AM
Jamm21 Jamm21 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Posts: 12
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Could I potentially use a Sony VRD-Mc5/Mc10 with a JVC HR-XVC38? The quality will most likely be bad but im not too bothered by it. just hoping to find a simple way to digitize vhs tapes onto a dvd
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
06-19-2022, 03:29 PM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Netherlands,
Posts: 371
Thanked 50 Times in 45 Posts
[snip]

The Sony you mention is very rare, the JVC you mention is just a VCR with a dvd-player, nothing special, going the path of a pc transfer is difficult because there's hardly good hardware that will do the job, and composite makes that even worse, s-video is somewhat better, but few vcr's will have s-video.

[snip]

Last edited by lordsmurf; 06-19-2022 at 05:38 PM. Reason: Some content removed. I refuse to let such awful "advice" be given on this site. -LS
Reply With Quote
  #3  
06-19-2022, 05:49 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,427
Thanked 2,289 Times in 1,959 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamm21 View Post
Could I potentially use a Sony VRD-Mc5/Mc10 with a JVC HR-XVC38? The quality will most likely be bad but im not too bothered by it. just hoping to find a simple way to digitize vhs tapes onto a dvd
This sort of comment is like saying you "just need a set of wheels, to get from A to B". But when you have a bicycle budget, all you get is a bicycle.

To continue the analogy, the problem is that video is 50 miles (or km) away, in the rain. A bicycle isn't going to work, it's not the proper tool for that travel task. No more so than just a random low-end VCR is the proper tool for this complex task of transferring video. Complex because of how the signal exists on the videotape.

There is a basic set of needs:
- VCR is obvious
- some form of time base correction (TBC)
- capture card, or recorder

You cannot completely avoid TBC, as you will have quality issues, or worse. Audio skew (lipsync), choppy video, massive quality issues, or even outright refusal to transfer.

At minimum, the TBC(ish), such as ES10/15 type Panasonic recorders for passthrough. That has many drawbacks, quality hits, but if you refuse to spend more than the bicycle budget it's all you can get.

A decent VCR, preferably S-VHS decks. With line TBC best, but even non-TBC better than crummy old consumer VCRs.

A good capture card -- not Easycaps, Elgato, ClearClick, or Chinese junk of that ilk.

That Sony recorder is infamous crap, waste of money. Don't do that. Spend those funds more wisely.

That JVC HR-XVC38 is a Funai-type lower end recorder, essentially composite output only (regardless of whatever connections it has, internals are composited). Condition matters more than model. If in top condition, no head problems, proper alignment, I've seen worse. That's not a recommendation, just not a warning that it's bad.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #4  
06-20-2022, 09:01 AM
Jamm21 Jamm21 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Posts: 12
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you for the advice, it's the simplest breakdown I've ever been able to get here, but honestly I still don't really understand what tbc is, I get what it does since that's all anyone talks about but is it a single device or multiple??? and no one really explains how it all connects either that's why I was trying the set up I asked about earlier really
Reply With Quote
  #5  
06-20-2022, 09:46 AM
Hushpower Hushpower is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 578
Thanked 100 Times in 95 Posts
Quote:
Could I potentially use a Sony VRD-Mc5/Mc10 with a JVC HR-XVC38?
If you have already bought both these bits of gear, absolutely. Connect the Yellow/Red/White OUT sockets on the VCR Combo to your Sony. I'm not familiar with it, but it may have a recoding quality mode: set it to highest. You may only get 60 minutes of VHS video onto a DVD at max quality. Make sure you "finalise" your DVD.

See how it looks. If you don't like it, you can go down the path alluded-to above.

If you haven't bought them, then read the advice above.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
06-20-2022, 11:38 AM
Jamm21 Jamm21 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Posts: 12
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you so much for your answer! I have the combo but I definitely can't shell out the money for whole new set up right now, I definitely would like to make it better quality later in rhe future just not right now
Reply With Quote
  #7  
06-20-2022, 11:47 AM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,427
Thanked 2,289 Times in 1,959 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamm21 View Post
Thank you for the advice, it's the simplest breakdown I've ever been able to get here, but honestly I still don't really understand what tbc is, I get what it does since that's all anyone talks about but is it a single device or multiple??? and no one really explains how it all connects either that's why I was trying the set up I asked about earlier really
If you try too hard to understand a TBC, you'll just confuse yourself more. It's gets extremely technical, to the point of being esoteric. Which is why I try to dumb it down.

All video is math.
Analog video signals are also chaos (wibbly-wobbly) within that math equation.

Old CRT TVs understood the chaos, somewhat un-wibbled the wobbles.
HDTVs ... not such much. Why? Not analog, but digital.
Capture cards (and digital recorders, DVD or otherwise) are pure digital, don't even attempt to understand the chaotic analog mess. Those require clean signals, no wibble-wobble, good math.

FYI, an example of bad math is analog signals may forget to carry the 1, or round 0.9 down instead of up. Not exactly this, of course, but to illustrate what "math" means.

TBCs purify the signal, remove wibbles/wobbles and chaos, clean up the math.

There are two basic kinds of TBC: line, and frame. (Actually, there are more, but all are variations of line or frame.)

The line TBC fixes the image, and sorta-kinda (not really) fixes the signal.
The frame TBC fixes the signal, and sorta-kinda (not really) fixes the image.
You need both.

The ES10/15 has a strong+crippled line TBC, and a non-TBC frame sync. That can make the signal acceptable enough to transfer, decent quality, mild problems. Not an ideal setup, but cheap, better than nothing at all.

Actual TBCs, such as the line in a JVC/Panasonic S-VHS VCR, or frame in DataVideo TBC-1000, correct fully, strongly, and properly. There are very limited issues, and it "just works" almost all the time. Of course, that carries some costs. But some people value time and hassle-free over costs (especially those at/past middle age). So there is a trade-off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hushpower View Post
If you have already bought both these bits of gear, absolutely. Connect the Yellow/Red/White OUT sockets on the VCR Combo to your Sony. I'm not familiar with it, but it may have a recoding quality mode: set it to highest. You may only get 60 minutes of VHS video onto a DVD at max quality. Make sure you "finalise" your DVD.
See how it looks. If you don't like it, you can go down the path alluded-to above.
If you haven't bought them, then read the advice above.
Even if both items were already bought, I'd still heavily suggest the ES10/15, at minimum, between the two. Quality of this setup will heavily suck, but the ES10/15 will make it suck far less.

Yes, always finalize!

I'm not sure about the exact unit, but the irony is that some recorders actually do better at 2-hour SP mode, even compared to XP. Why? Attuned for it. More bitrate at XP, yet badly allocated, can look worse than SP compression with good allocation. You saw a lot of those back in the "MPEG shootout" days, with various encoder tests.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #8  
06-20-2022, 12:39 PM
Jamm21 Jamm21 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Posts: 12
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
ah OK, the math bit made it easier to understand I'll look into the tbcs you recommended then, thank you so much for taking the time to explain!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
06-21-2022, 02:37 AM
RobustReviews RobustReviews is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: London - UK
Posts: 568
Thanked 87 Times in 76 Posts
[bad advice remove]

I don't know what you're transferring, it might be something that isn't especially important to you or not quality critical, in which case spending thousands might not be the way to go. Lots of this premium equipment is also starting to fail, it's all well and good if you can sell it on, but if you're playing 'hot potato' for something you're not fussed about it might not be the best fit.

Some of the biggest YouTube channels for retro media are just using cheapo USB dongles, they seem to get by well enough. The videos are riddled with 'faults' I wholly agree, but sometimes 'good enough, is good enough, is good enough' as Gertrude Stein probably said.

I liken this a bit of Amateur Radio, you can spend (and I have spent) a small fortune on equipment, but some just want a quick over on 2 Metres once or twice a month, in which case a 15 Baofeng UV5R will do the job just fine.

Last edited by lordsmurf; 06-26-2022 at 04:09 AM. Reason: Suggesting known bad transfer methods is not allowed. -LS
Reply With Quote
  #10  
06-24-2022, 04:43 PM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Netherlands,
Posts: 371
Thanked 50 Times in 45 Posts
For now, if you want to go cheap, a scaler/converter to HDMI and a HDMI to USB dongle will give better results then the easycap dongles, but you need to experiment, because you're on thin ice…. -- No. Still bad. -LS

or look for a transfer service in your neighborhood, like a photoshop, (but they just have also a VHS/DVD combo recorder, from the thriftstore) you save money that way, by not stocking useless devices later.

Last edited by lordsmurf; 06-26-2022 at 04:11 AM. Reason: Suggesting known bad transfer methods is not allowed. -LS
Reply With Quote
  #11  
06-24-2022, 05:18 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,427
Thanked 2,289 Times in 1,959 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric-Jan View Post
a scaler/converter to HDMI and a HDMI to USB dongle will give better results then the easycap dongles,
Not really. It just outputs a different kind of low terrible quality. None of those bottom-feeder methods should ever be recommended at this site.

Quote:
or look for a transfer service
That's an option.

Quote:
(but they just have also a VHS/DVD combo recorder, from the thriftstore)
... but no professional transfer service would ever use that kind of junk. If you find a service using garbage like this, do not use. That's not a quality service, and those are not video professionals. You can do the same at home. Or hopefully better at home.

Quote:
you save money that way, by not stocking useless devices later.
That's negative economics. Smart spending is to buy good gear, use it, and resell it, because it holds value. When you buy junk, it's yours forever, nobody wants that stuff. At best, it's the "greater fool theory", where you hope somebody else is as dumb as you are, and will buy it (either for more than you paid, or at all).

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #12  
06-26-2022, 02:24 AM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Netherlands,
Posts: 371
Thanked 50 Times in 45 Posts
one still needs to get a TBC function "like" device.

Last edited by lordsmurf; 06-26-2022 at 04:11 AM. Reason: Removed quoted text. -LS
Reply With Quote
  #13  
06-26-2022, 03:36 AM
lollo2 lollo2 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Italy
Posts: 643
Thanked 178 Times in 155 Posts
Quote:
Quote:
buy a cheapo 'EasyCap' or similar
then one still needs to get a TBC function "like" device.
A scaler/converter to HDMI as well, its input is analog; both methods will produce bad results and should be avoided, as properly said earlier.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
06-26-2022, 04:15 AM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,427
Thanked 2,289 Times in 1,959 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lollo2 View Post
A scaler/converter to HDMI as well, its input is analog; both methods will produce bad results and should be avoided, as properly said earlier.
I'm going to start removing BS advice to use the lowest quality known-bad methods (Easycaps, Chinese HDMI converters, etc). That's antithetical to this site, and does a great disservice to newbies seeking help. No more, not here. As far as I'm concerned, it's like suggesting somebody eat dog food.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #15  
06-26-2022, 07:08 AM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Netherlands,
Posts: 371
Thanked 50 Times in 45 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
I'm going to start removing BS advice to use the lowest quality known-bad methods (Easycaps, Chinese HDMI converters, etc). That's antithetical to this site, and does a great disservice to newbies seeking help. No more, not here. As far as I'm concerned, it's like suggesting somebody eat dog food.
Most newbees already bought an easycrap device when they visit here, they don't have $1000 or more, to spend.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
06-26-2022, 09:26 AM
Bogilein Bogilein is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bavaria
Posts: 256
Thanked 91 Times in 66 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
I'm going to start removing BS advice to use the lowest quality known-bad methods (Easycaps, Chinese HDMI converters, etc). That's antithetical to this site, and does a great disservice to newbies seeking help. No more, not here. As far as I'm concerned, it's like suggesting somebody eat dog food.
On the other hand, you could of course show the difference with examples instead of censorship under the guise of better quality.
That should do a professional video forum and would have an added value for the forum.

So Digital Faq mutates to a fanboy forum where only JVC, Datavideo and SDI may be discussed or other hardware that find your favor.

You should also rename the forum to "The expert says:". Often enough it is just words and assertions without proof of correctness. Against all other hardware and capture ways was spoken here negatively without even having tested all.
Then I can save my contributions in the future because they fall victim to censorship, since I use hardware from Canopus/Grass Valley, Blackmagic, Panasonic, various DVD recorders and some other hardware.

If you follow various posts on Videohelp, there are now also enough users who give Digital Faq a wide berth, because they are not helped here, but have the feeling it's just about directing you to the Marketplace where they should buy the recommended hardware.

What a year of changes. Hooray.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank Bogilein for this useful post: Eric-Jan (11-06-2022), RobustReviews (06-27-2022)
  #17  
06-26-2022, 01:07 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,427
Thanked 2,289 Times in 1,959 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric-Jan View Post
Most newbees already bought an easycrap device when they visit here, they don't have $1000 or more, to spend.
There are viable budget options below $1000, but above non-viable $5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogilein View Post
On the other hand, you could of course show the difference with examples
That should do a professional video forum and would have an added value for the forum.
Others with more time than myself can do this work.

Quote:
So Digital Faq mutates to a fanboy forum where only JVC, Datavideo and SDI may be discussed or other hardware that find your favor.
Read exactly what I wrote. People suggesting infamous lowest quality devices will not be allowed to post bad advice. That's probably exclusive to cheap Chinese Easycaps and HDMI converters. And that pathetic "advice" in only coming from a few select users that are often contrarians.

If you read more of my writing, you'd know I don't like SDI. But it is discussed, and has been for many years, and surely will be for many more.

Quote:
You should also rename the forum to "The expert says:".
This site has always been about quality suggestions from those experienced in analog video conversion. It's never been "what the random person thinks". If you want random crap advice, that's what TikTok is for.

Quote:
Often enough it is just words and assertions without proof of correctness.
The typical person who "insists" on "proof" just wants to argue, when known-good info is being discussed. This was long ago settled, often decades ago when the content is evergreen. So no amount of wasting my time on this "proof" will ever appease stupid. That person isn't who I'm trying to reach, and is just noise that needs to be muted.

Quote:
I use hardware from Canopus/Grass Valley, Blackmagic, Panasonic, various DVD recorders and some other hardware.
That gear is fine.

It depends on the project needs, but I too often suggested budget methods using DVD recorders with TBC(ish) passthrough. The key for me is "project needs".

You're fine. You and I disagree at times, but we also agree quite often. You focus too much on our disagreements.

Quote:
but have the feeling it's just about directing you to the Marketplace where they should buy the recommended hardware.
The marketplace was started, and used, precisely because the hardware we need for quality conversion has become hard to find. eBay is the main "other choice", and it's full of recyclers that wouldn't know a TBC from a toaster, where "working" and "tested" are neither.

You're from Europe, and the European market is pretty decent for VCRs (mostly due to a few folks like VCRshop/Branko), though TBCs and capture cards are not too much better. There's several more TBC(ish) devices to choose from, and PAL capture card needs are a bit more loose on average (therefore more options, including even DV for decent captures).

Quote:
instead of censorship under the guise of better quality.
It's not a guise. Nor is this a "freeze peach" site. I refuse to let decades of quality advice be drown out by a select few that suddenly in 2022 want to dole out crap advice (Easycraps, HDMI doodads).

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #18  
06-26-2022, 06:19 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 2,664
Thanked 470 Times in 435 Posts
Samples comparing different capture devices are everywhere they don't need to be redone every six months, this is a legacy task, it had its peak 10 years or so ago where there were a lot of choices of quality capture devices, Anything available now is junk and compare it to a quality capture device or to another junk device is waste of time, like comparing a real gun to a toy gun or comparing two toy guns (and no I'm not into guns).

LS reaction to some posts stems from what's going on at VH forum, VH did degrade in the last few years I've been there and most of the very knowledgeable members there are either gone or decided to stay silent, All what you see is links to wikipedia and google stuff that can be found easily by anyone, Instead of linking own work or spend some time digging up some comparison threads from few years ago, They just rumble about how smart they are.

https://www.youtube.com/@Capturing-Memories/videos
Reply With Quote
  #19  
06-26-2022, 07:03 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,427
Thanked 2,289 Times in 1,959 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
most of the very knowledgeable members there are either gone or decided to stay silent, All what you see is links to wikipedia and google stuff
I was online almost 30 years ago. Even 20 years ago, maybe even 10, you had educated discussions. Those discussions largely had foundations of facts, of truth. There were not constant "them vs. us/me" lunatic ravings, nor were facts/truth ridiculously malleable (propaganda).

Take a topic as simple as capture cards, with members in this thread.
- You (latreche) like SDI. I don't, closed loop. We both agree it's viable.
- lollo likes the Live2 card. I don't. We both agree it's viable, though I warn him about production changes (aka bad/rogue cards). He insists no changes exist. But if he acquired those in bulk, he'd find some. But I honestly hope he never has such issues. I want people to have a good capture experience. It's great he's never seen one.
- Bogelein likes Canopus. I'm somewhat neutral on PAL Canopus. We both agree it's viable.Again, I'm glad he's having a decent qualtiy capture experience. And that he shared info on the TBC(ish) PAL DVD recorders.

We had discussions, sometimes heated, sometimes not. But there was a baseline of quality expectations, of facts regarding video levels/values.

Easycaps and HDMI toys have none of that, cheap Chinese garbage that doesn't care. Chinaman says: "Stupid Americans buy my $1 item for $100, mwahahaha!" Seriously. It doesn't deserve mention, or even acknowledgement. It sure as hell should not be a suggestion. There has to be minimum acceptable level, and anything below that is out of bounds.

Like a cooking site suggesting dog food.
Or a gun site suggesting toy guns.
Or a video site suggesting cheapy $5 (or less) Chinese junk hardware.
That's it precisely.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #20  
06-26-2022, 11:02 PM
traal traal is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 312
Thanked 59 Times in 53 Posts
Another affordable and decent capture card in the $40 range is the Diamond VC500. I just bought a second one because the first one died after 3 years when it stopped capturing audio. (I tried using the computer's built-in sound card for audio capture but the result was terrible.)

So if you want affordable, you neither need nor want the EasyCap, Elgato, or other Chinese junk. The VC500 is more than worth the difference in price.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Want to transfer VHS with DVD recorder? trishp Capture, Record, Transfer 7 03-07-2022 01:24 PM
Best set-up for transfer to digital lidorariel2310 Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 0 03-02-2021 08:19 AM
How to best transfer analog to digital? three4rd Capture, Record, Transfer 5 11-08-2019 11:50 AM
Best VCR for digital transfer AndyO6322 Capture, Record, Transfer 10 02-13-2013 10:52 AM
Super 8mm Transfer to Digital JasonCA Project Planning, Workflows 5 10-27-2011 10:58 PM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:48 PM