Setting ATI TV Wonder USB 2.0 audio levels?

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mputerio

I would be interested to read that article. I appreciate your honest take on all thing A/V since while of course myself and others will attempt to justify less than professional gear as "acceptable" mostly to ourselves as an excuse for not being able to afford or for not selecting the right gear, everyone would prefer to have the best setup possible given the opportunity.

Part of that is the point. Things like JVC S-VHS VCR with line TBC is not "the best", nor really "professional", though pros do use them. Consumer source gear like TBC-1000 also isn't "the best", merely costly (but also has the best resale, so buy it, use it, resell it). All of that is just at the higher end of a home/hobby type setup.

Part of said article will discuss resale, as casual consumer have this idea of buy it, put it in a drawer, and eventually trash it. A problem mentality created by our "disposable" society and economy.

[mputerio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Part of that is the point. Things like JVC S-VHS VCR with line TBC is not "the best", nor really "professional", though pros do use them. Consumer source gear like TBC-1000 also isn't "the best", merely costly (but also has the best resale, so buy it, use it, resell it). All of that is just at the higher end of a home/hobby type setup.

As much as myself and probably others on this forum like to DIY, this is probably the best argument in favor of using a professional digitization service. I don't see prices listed for your services, but assuming something like Legacy Box is decent, it's hard to beat $20/tape unless you have hundreds of tapes to convert. But then on the other end of the debate, if you look at the reviews of one of the popular sub-$200 "one click converters" on Amazon, people seem to be happy with "average" quality, or maybe more accurately, they assume that's just the best available. Sort of like how back in the days of playstation 2 and Xbox 360, it always bothered me when friends would plug in the composite video cause it "just worked" even though the game console and TV both had the substantially better quality component video in/out!

Quote:

Part of said article will discuss resale, as casual consumer have this idea of buy it, put it in a drawer, and eventually trash it. A problem mentality created by our "disposable" society and economy.

This is really a shame with how things work today. All we ever hear about is "sustainability" yet it seems every product is designed to be disposable. I have the opposite problem of never wanting to throw anything away. "I could use that power cord or indicator lamp from x broken device some day!"
Also why I have the feeling that if I come across a recommended TBC in the sub-$1000 range that I'll buy it and not want to resell it unless I really need the cash & have moved on to a completely different project.

I know this is really going off topic but for the TBCs you have for sale in the marketplace, the Pixie and Cypress 8120 (composite only), would you recommend either of these for my video8 project, or just experiment with what I have for now until something else pops up? I assume composite only is no good since y/c has a sharper image, but not sure on the Pixie since I'm not using a VHS source.
Thanks again for your time & help.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mputerio

but assuming something like Legacy Box is decent,

Bad assumption. Once you get past the fake glowing reviews, it's not pretty stuff. Lost tapes/photos, damaged, etc. Pathetic, really. The quality of work is below what you could do on your own with minimal quality gear. That's why "professional" services are often anything but. It's why DIY is so often the path taken.

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it's hard to beat $20/tape

It's actually impossible, unless you're giving it minimal quality of care. Whatever goes in comes out, quality or not -- even when it would have been easily corrected with care, or proper hardware. That was the price of transfer 20 years ago, not now, unless you're getting crap in return.

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if you look at the reviews of one of the popular sub-$200 "one click converters" on Amazon, people seem to be happy with "average" quality,

Amazon reviews are worthless. As I've said before, there have literally been dangerous catch-on-fire items that get 4-5 stars. Amazon is where you buy stuff, not get an idea as to the quality.

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or maybe more accurately, they assume that's just the best available.

That's it. And lack of research on their part (ie, not seeing sites like this one) equates to lack of knowledge as to what's possible.

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This is really a shame with how things work today. All we ever hear about is "sustainability" yet it seems every product is designed to be disposable.

Sustainability is sometimes an earnest goal, sometimes just a checkbox. I've worked at places where it was the latter, and the "sustainability" was 100% pure bullplop on paper only. Nothing is ever 100% clean, it's give and take. Batteries require excess resources to create, and are generally dangerous. Electricity burns carbon. It's really a least-worst scenario. What's amusing (in a dark way) is when items are created disposable "sustainably" (break down), but reuse would have been 100% better. For example, I reuse cardboard boxes, but cannot do so when the box is flimsy "recyclable" crap. Ironic, huh? Oh, and no recycle available here, so it's trashed 100%, landfill material.

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I know this is really going off topic but for the TBCs you have for sale in the marketplace, the Pixie and Cypress 8120 (composite only), would you recommend either of these for my video8 project, or just experiment with what I have for now until something else pops up? I assume composite only is no good since y/c has a sharper image, but not sure on the Pixie since I'm not using a VHS source.
Thanks again for your time & help.

Composite gets a bad reputation because the devices are crap, not the connection. Composite video is "composited video", meaning the Y/C is merged to a single signal. Composited. That doesn't have to be overly soft, have artifacts, luma/chroma offset, look bad, etc. But often does, probably due to limited off-the-shelf composite kits/chips. However, it can look decent, especially if latter processing to streaming. Not overly soft, not massively damaged by dot crawl, etc. Those devices generally cost more, of course, not the $100 VCR or video game system -- aka, TBCs.

The Pixie can be fine with Hi8. Only potential concern is any blue screen at footage breaks, if any. This is something I could test if anybody seriously wanted it. Or, better yet, just disable camera blue screen, and done. My focus with it has generally been VHS.
- Note: Disable blue screen does not apply to JVC S-VHS VCRs.
- Note: Unlike bad black AVT-8710, no random frame sticking. Only similar issues, not the same.
- Note: This ONLY applies to the pair of units I had available in the marketplace (1 left), and both myself an others tested others awful unusable Pixie units. Aside from this unit, I'd suggest folks stay far away from these, and I'm doing so as well.

[Hushpower]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mputerio

the Pixie and Cypress 8120 (composite only), would you recommend either of these for my video8 project

Wouldn't you use your Singmai for this?

[mputerio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hushpower

Wouldn't you use your Singmai for this?

Correct, that's the plan. But given the fact the device hasn't been shipped or arrived yet, I was considering a secondary TBC to have 3 total options (Singmai, ES10, other TBC) to play with. I admit it's a bit ridiculous, but should be fun experimenting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Bad assumption. Once you get past the fake glowing reviews, it's not pretty stuff. Lost tapes/photos, damaged, etc. Pathetic, really. The quality of work is below what you could do on your own with minimal quality gear. That's why "professional" services are often anything but. It's why DIY is so often the path taken.

Well that clears up their insanely low pricing!

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Amazon reviews are worthless. As I've said before, there have literally been dangerous catch-on-fire items that get 4-5 stars. Amazon is where you buy stuff, not get an idea as to the quality.

This is correct in many cases, and I know that for a fact because I've gotten a number of free products in exchange for writing 5 star reviews. It was never explicitly said that it had to be a 5 star review, but I can only assume I wouldn't have been sent the free product if I gave a 1-star review. But with the particular one click device I'm talking about, it was clear that a number of the reviews were from real people (including one guy who claimed to be a tech guy and attached photos of him using the device).

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Sustainability is sometimes an earnest goal, sometimes just a checkbox. I've worked at places where it was the latter, and the "sustainability" was 100% pure bullplop on paper only. Nothing is ever 100% clean, it's give and take. Batteries require excess resources to create, and are generally dangerous. Electricity burns carbon. It's really a least-worst scenario. What's amusing (in a dark way) is when items are created disposable "sustainably" (break down), but reuse would have been 100% better. For example, I reuse cardboard boxes, but cannot do so when the box is flimsy "recyclable" crap. Ironic, huh? Oh, and no recycle available here, so it's trashed 100%, landfill material.

No disagreement here. In terms of recycling, from what I understand, it's only practical to recycle metals since the costs involved in recycling papers and plastic cost more. But re-use is the best way to recycle. My state landfill captures the methane produced by decaying waste to generate power used to run the facility, and I think that's also smart. But it's frustrating when quality is heavily compromised in the name of "going green". My local big box store used to have super thick plastic bags which required no double bagging and which I reused as trash bags. They switched to paper which means I now double bag every bag since they rip otherwise. And they're not as good as trash bags since they can't hold liquids. Same with paper straws that aren't completely sealed so you can hardly use it, and that get soggy. And on a broader level, the current crisis in Sri Lanka where government policy banning the use of chemical fertilizer (among many many other poor decisions such as overspending) has led to food shortages amid a ton of other problems leading to the current violent protests. Same with issues in the Netherlands. There is a smart way to achieve "sustainability", and I'm all for reducing pollution, and increasing efficiencies. But forcing down decisions without accounting for the very real costs is a terrible policy, and I'll leave it at that

[RobustReviews]

Just to go back to mixers, I like Berringher kit for what it is, it's cheap and cheerful and it's pretty robust. Hum and mains isolation is something we've battled for years though, that's UK market models though.

Mackie (which personally I would consider a level above Berringher) is usually built from better materials. We still rent out Onyx series to some fairly prestigious customers. Whilst being basic they're usually of far better construction internally. We are still have a classic 16 channel Onyx (1800?) on the books that has been gigged non stop since 2009ish for live mixing, or VOG and beyond the odd clean and to pick the fag ash out the sliders it's been faultless.

It depends on the market but either Yamaha for near field or Tannoy Reveal. Reveal are now available in a more wallet conscious version and are astonishingly accurate.

The new Berringher digital series (model number escapes me) are wonderful, we've been blown away by them in small/medium live setups.

As a radio presenter though, a classic analogue Sonifex is still my standard; that's an apples to oranges comparison though.

These are just general notes, I'm mobile so will reply fully of this is an ongoing issue - audio is something one of my businesses know about to say the least. My business partner is a producer/engineer for one of the global 'big boys' when it comes to broadcast audio and restoration.

There is great kit out there though at modest prices, but I'd just caution the basic 8 channel Berringher for 'delicate' work.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobustReviews

Mackie (which personally I would consider a level above Berringher) is usually built from better materials.

Yes, Mackie/Tapco better than Behringer.

I got lucky back around 2006. Mackie had just bought back the Tapco name, and released several mixers with that branding. I had a reward (free money, $50) at an AV store, didn't see much of interest, or even much of anything for only $50, so I used it for the new Tapco, paying about $10 out of pocket. I figured if it sucked, I'd just resell it, I'd profit off my $10. These days, comparable Mackie/Tapco are about $100.

Tapco was supposedly the "budget" brand of Mackie, but users were confused about what exactly was budget. It performed better than Yamaha, Behringer, arguably even some older Mackies, for units of the same approx I/O and features.

Here's a good review from the time:
https://homerecording.com/bbs/thread...-mixer.210816/
https://gearspace.com/board/low-end-...-mixer-ok.html

[RobustReviews]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Yes, Mackie/Tapco better than Behringer.

I got lucky back around 2006. Mackie had just bought back the Tapco name, and released several mixers with that branding. I had a reward (free money, $50) at an AV store, didn't see much of interest, or even much of anything for only $50, so I used it for the new Tapco, paying about $10 out of pocket. I figured if it sucked, I'd just resell it, I'd profit off my $10. These days, comparable Mackie/Tapco are about $100.

Tapco was supposedly the "budget" brand of Mackie, but users were confused about what exactly was budget. It performed better than Yamaha, Behringer, arguably even some older Mackies, for units of the same approx I/O and features.

Here's a good review from the time:
https://homerecording.com/bbs/thread...-mixer.210816/
https://gearspace.com/board/low-end-...-mixer-ok.html

Never heard of Tapco but usually that's not the level we work at - I'm sure they're good.

I could 'willy wave' here but that's not helpful.

Few have had an event or broadcast ruined by the model or mixer - unless it's of toe-curlingly bad quality.

We've produced content for the BBC on Zoom H1s and Berringhers.

I stand by previous remarks though, a good detailed set of headphones is still the first line of tool.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobustReviews

Never heard of Tapco but usually that's not the level we work at - I'm sure they're good.

Really?

Mackie ... Mr. Mackie ... started with the Tapco brand in the 70s. There was no Mackie brand yet, that came in the 80s. Mackie sold the Tapco name, then bought it back.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Clark_Mackie#TAPCO

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I stand by previous remarks though, a good detailed set of headphones is still the first line of tool.

Or speakers. Not everybody can tolerate headphones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hushpower

Wouldn't you use your Singmai for this?

Well, it really depends. The SingMai is not claiming TBC, and in fact may turn out to be like every other SDI capture card/box/appliance already in existence, in that it's essentially a pricey capture card. Whatever extra stuff happens internally may be weak, inadequate, or do little to nothing. I've not been impressed by anything I've seen thus far, and it really feels like deja vu. All hat, no cattle. Specs on paper don't mean anything to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mputerio

Correct, that's the plan. But given the fact the device hasn't been shipped or arrived yet, I was considering a secondary TBC to have 3 total options (Singmai, ES10, other TBC) to play with. I admit it's a bit ridiculous, but should be fun experimenting.

I like that plan. You get a TBC(ish), an actual TBC (even if not best), and an unknown.

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This is correct in many cases, and I know that for a fact because I've gotten a number of free products in exchange for writing 5 star reviews. It was never explicitly said that it had to be a 5 star review, but I can only assume I wouldn't have been sent the free product if I gave a 1-star review. But with the particular one click device I'm talking about, it was clear that a number of the reviews were from real people (including one guy who claimed to be a tech guy and attached photos of him using the device).

I'm rarely impressed when somebody claims to be a "tech guy". Within minutes, it's often very obvious that they have limited knowledge, especially historical (means over 10 years old, even just 3 or 5). Most actual "tech guys" are older, have decades of knowledge, across multiple areas. Not that capture cards have much of anything to do with tech, and many "tech guys" (actual or not) have limited understandings of video. After all, modern lawnmowers are tech too, right? Demonstrating knowledge is all I care about, not claims.

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In terms of recycling, from what I understand, it's only practical to recycle metals

We'd sometimes take a truckload of metal (literally loading up a truck), and walk away with enough money to buy lunch at Taco Bell. So a free lunch, and a green good deed?

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My state landfill captures the methane produced by decaying waste to generate power used to run the facility, and I think that's also smart.

Look at what WM is doing, impressive, interesting.

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Same with paper straws that aren't completely sealed so you can hardly use it, and that get soggy.

I don't understand why people insists on straws. I never use them. Is it that hard to lift the cup to your mouth? Straws strike me as the #1 dumbest waste of plastic on the planet.

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But forcing down decisions without accounting

This is a simple case of being ignorant about things for which you nothing about. And yet, willing to ignorantly dictate to others. This is fairly apolitical, too. Some political parties attract more stupid than others, but there's plenty of stupid to go around.

[dudemcgraw]

I finally received the Mackie and some new cables and plugged it all in. While I am now able to better control the audio levels, it seems like the signal coming out of the Mackie is slightly quieter on the left channel than the right. I did a test with a tape I know to have mono audio and going direct into the ATI the audio is balanced, and out of the Mackie the left channel is slightly quieter. I panned it slightly to the left with the mono tape so the levels are more or less balanced now (it doesn't seem possible to get them to line up exactly), but I worry that I am doing something wrong here. What do you suggest?

[lordsmurf]

Try different (and better) RCA cables.

[dudemcgraw]

I'm pretty sure it isn't the cabling. I tried two different sets of brand new cables, one Monoprice:
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B002JTV7...roduct_details)

and the other Pig Hog:
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B017Y449...roduct_details)

I've seen both brands recommended. I am getting the same result with each (left channel a little quieter), even though they both plug in and out of separate jacks on the Mackie. Additionally, when I take the rca cable out of the Mackie and plug it directly into the ATI I get a balanced signal. What do you think?

[lordsmurf]

It could be the tapes, recorded signal.
It could be the VCR.

[traal]

After capture, do you normalize the stereo channels independently? https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/normalize.html