Pinnacle 710 USB optimal audio input level?

[vmax]

What is considered to be the optimal audio input level for Pinnacle 710 USB in Crossbar Thing? The default is 0 dB (please see attached screenshot).

In another thread LS wrote that for ATI 600 USB audio needs to be normalized at 50%, which apparently is -7.5dB (assuming the value referred to in yet another thread is accurate).

In that same thread LS though wrote that "Pinnacle defaults there already" -- so assuming he refers to Pinnacle 710 USB, I wonder whether 0 dB already is the optimal value? Or should it actually be -7.5 dB, for example?

Thanks!

[lordsmurf]

That card should already be fine as-is.

There are variants of this long lived model, but it doesn't affect audio on any from what I've seen, just video quality. Which means some are good, some not so much.

[vmax]

Thanks a lot for the extra fast reply!

One of the reasons why I asked was that higher the input level is, the louder also the background "buzz" is.

By buzz I mean the background noise that can be heard even in the idle "blue screen" of JVC recorders such as HR-S9600. (I believe the buzz is not a technical issue: I have also HR-S9700, and the same buzz exists even when it is connected straight to TV and volume is sufficiently high.)

Of course, it is possible to get rid of that noise in postprocessing.

As to the card itself, I believe it should be fine as it is from your curated stock.

[latreche34]

The buzzing noise is becoming a common problem with JVC VCR's but only when linear audio is active, When the HiFi is active there is no noise, If you are getting the buzz with no tape inserted look for ground loops, That is not a VCR problem.

On the VCR related audio buzzing problem, I'm waiting for Colin or 12voltvids to do a video repair about it so I'll have an idea what to do for my JVC VCR's, Most likely a filtering problem which means audio preamp capacitors. It's not a big issue for me right now.

[dpalomaki]

Keep in mind that the audio level adjustment is intended to allow you to deal with recordings that were made with too high or low audio levels. The default setting (0.0 dB) is a for recordings and playback gear that follow generally accepted standards for consumer audio. Not all recordings, especially home recordings, will comply with the generally accepted recording levels, and not all playback gear will either. And broadcast gear may have much higher audio output levels.

Adjust the levels only if there is an issue with the audio levels in your capture. Two high may result in clipping (or additional clipping of already clipped audio) and raised noise levels, two low may put desired audio into the noise floor of the capture card reducing the dynamic range of the recorded audio.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vmax

higher the input level is, the louder also the background "buzz" is.

With this specific card, that issue is usually source or VCR issue, though sometimes RF/electrical interference as well.

Quote:

the same buzz exists even when it is connected straight to TV and volume is sufficiently high

VCR issue internal RF problems, or exterior electrical. This is a reason UPS is often suggested, it usually knocks out power line noise.

Quote:

Of course, it is possible to get rid of that noise in postprocessing.

Not really. There are downsides there. Find the root cause, fix it there.

Quote:

As to the card itself, I believe it should be fine as it is from your curated stock.

Yep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

On the VCR related audio buzzing problem, I'm waiting for Colin or 12voltvids to do a video repair about it so I'll have an idea what to do for my JVC VCR's, Most likely a filtering problem which means audio preamp capacitors. It's not a big issue for me right now.

Post about that here, and PM me notification so I don't miss it. I want to read about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpalomaki

Keep in mind that the audio level adjustment is intended to allow you to deal with recordings that were made with too high or low audio levels. .... is a for recordings and playback gear that follow generally accepted standards for consumer audio. Not all recordings, especially home recordings, will comply with the generally accepted recording levels, and not all playback gear will either. And broadcast gear may have much higher audio output levels.
Adjust the levels only if there is an issue with the audio levels in your capture. Two high may result in clipping (or additional clipping of already clipped audio) and raised noise levels, two low may put desired audio into the noise floor of the capture card reducing the dynamic range of the recorded audio.

All correct, OP needs to read it.

Quote:

The default setting (0.0 dB)

I'm not at my capture system now, but I'm fairly certain it's not 0.0, but actually more like -3 or -7 or something. Something negative. Which is correct.

[vmax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

"If you are getting the buzz with no tape inserted look for ground loops,"

That was a great tip! I now added a ground loop isolator between Panasonic DMR-ES10 and Pinnacle 710 USB, and the buzz disappeared completely. The only device I was able to acquire immediately cost only ~15 EUR, but based on hearing only I wasn't able to detect any downsides. There are similar devices that cost more than 200 USD though.

Based on quick research, some isolators can reduce bass output. I wonder if this or any other potential issues are something I need to be concerned about with video tapes? If yes, I'd appreciate any tips on how to conduct the tests that are necessary to find out any issues that can't be easily detected based on hearing only. I'd rather not spend 200 USD on a high-end isolator just to be on the safe side.

Also, could it be that the buzz caused by a ground loop occurs only when there is no actual audio? I listened to a test capture I did without the isolator and compared it to a new one with the isolator, and based on hearing alone I didn't detect any differences when a tape was playing. The buzz seemed to occur only in the JVC blue screen during which where is no audio. This would be good to know to determine whether I need to re-capture some of the tapes I already captured.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

I'm not at my capture system now, but I'm fairly certain it's not 0.0, but actually more like -3 or -7 or something. Something negative. Which is correct."

If possible, can you please at same point check it in your system? Here it seems to be 0.0 dB -- if I press Default (the button that is shown in the screenshot in the first post), the input level changes to 0.0 dB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

VCR issue internal RF problems, or exterior electrical. This is a reason UPS is often suggested, it usually knocks out power line noise.

Interestingly, in this case all the devices are behind a UPS (all sockets in the room are powered by a line-interactive UPS) and they also share the same powerstrip. It would be interesting to find out what causes the ground loop though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpalomaki

Keep in mind that the audio level adjustment is intended to allow you to deal with recordings that were made with too high or low audio levels.

Thanks! One of the reasons I asked was the potential clipping, so I wanted to make sure that the default wasn't too high. It was a surprise that the primary issue turned out to be something completely different.

[lordsmurf]

A cheap/low-quality or defective UPS can also cause issues, not resolve, so watch for that.

So you resolved it with ground loop isolation? Excellent.

[vmax]

It is a relatively high-end UPS. Of course, it might have a defect, but I haven't noticed any other issues. Unlike some UPSes, this one powers several other systems as well (it is wired to power all sockets in two rooms), so maybe that has an effect too. To rule out any UPS malfunction, I suppose I could test the capture system with a non-UPS socket in another room.

And yes, the buzz indeed seems to be resolved.