#1  
12-12-2022, 08:07 PM
DavyJonesProctor DavyJonesProctor is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 5
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hello, new user here! I've lurked here a lot lately when planning my VHS conversion project. I have bought some things and am almost ready to begin my project, but have a question regarding macrovision/anti-copy.

I have a good VCR (S-VHS JVC) and a bad VCR (Goldstar, composite/mono). I have a good capture card (Pinnacle 710) and a bad capture card (old Hauppauge). I also have DataVideo TBC-1000 which I bought online and want to fully test it to make sure it is working. However, trying to test it is proving to be more difficult than I thought.

I bought a VHS copy of Liar, Liar, which is supposed to have good anti-copy to test. My problem is that no matter what combination of workflow I try:
JVC > Hauppauge > VirtualDub
JVC > Pinnacle > VirtualDub
Goldstar > Hauppauge > VirtualDub
Goldstar > Pinnacle > VirtualDub

I never get any captures that show any signs of macrovision/anti-copy. Obviously the Goldstar signal is far inferior, but other than a drop in quality, I can't get a macrovision/anti-copy baseline in which to test the TBC-1000.

Am I missing something? Do I need to do something else to "activate" the macrovision/anti-copy? I watched this video where the macrovision doesn't "activate" until the other VHS player is recording. This makes me think I need something else in the workflow (but before the TBC-1000) to get the macrovision to show up?

I have also thrown the TBC-1000 into the workflow after the VCRs. It seems to work in that the captures don't look any worse. With the TBC-1000, the JVC menu screen looks all blue and normal too.

Maybe my copy of Liar, Liar just doesn't have any Macrovision? I could also try getting my hands on some Young Indiana Jones tapes or some old Disney tapes too for additional testing?

Any help or guidance you may be able to provide would be really helpful. Thanks so much!
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
12-12-2022, 09:01 PM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA
Posts: 1,664
Thanked 354 Times in 310 Posts
Watching the waveform on a oscilloscope would show the Macrovision if present. Is you VHS copy a "reql" one, or a counterfeit copy that may have had the copy protection stripped off in the process?

Macrovision needs no activation, it just naturally is in the VCR output signal if present on the tape. A separate test of the tape is to try copy it direct from one VCR to the other.

Macrovision respect by capture cards was I believe driven by the Millenium Copyright act. old gear produced prior to it might be immune to it.

Trying some other commercial tapes is a good plan. Keep in mind that the purpose of the TBC is to provide a stable, within spec image. Macrovison defeat is a collateral effect.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
12-12-2022, 09:34 PM
DavyJonesProctor DavyJonesProctor is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 5
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the reply! I do not have an oscilloscope unfortunately. However, I am fairly certain it is an official/real VHS tape because it was still shrink wrapped and the case has high quality printing and shows no signs of being a fake. It of course is still a possibility.

I will maybe try a copy test to another VCR, as well as try other tapes.

As you mention, I donít really care to bypass macrovision, but want to make sure the TBC is functional and it seems like the easiest test since the home videos I have are all in really good shape and I canít find any with huge signal issues.

The only thing Iíve noticed is that when I keep a capture going after a tape has no more ďcontentĒ on it, I get significantly fewer inserted frames on the static part of the tape with the TBC as compared to without. Perhaps that is a possible indicator of it functioning properly, but Iím not sure.

Thank you again!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
12-12-2022, 09:49 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,874
Thanked 2,347 Times in 2,001 Posts
Certain versions of the 710 ignore it. Hauppauge almost always abidese by it, and displays as a blur/swirl.

Young Indiana Jones has ugly anti-copy on it, as do some releases of The Tick cartoon. More tame/normal anti-copy is on Mortal Kombat, Home Alone, and Liar Liar.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #5  
12-13-2022, 05:24 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA
Posts: 1,664
Thanked 354 Times in 310 Posts
As I recall Macrovision relied on the AGC specification used by VHS machines per the JVC license. It places a signal in the blanking interval of the video signal that fools the AGC into giving false levels resulting in a trashed image on the VHS recorder. However, the AGC used in TV sets was generally (but not always) immune to it.

In the 1980s/1990s there were in the market "video stabilizers" that could with varying degrees of success defeat Macrovision by reforming the sync, but they had no TBC effect what so ever. There was a sort of a cat and mouse game between Macrovision and the stabilizer makers as Macrovision changed a bit to try render the devices ineffective. Then came the copyright protection act that banned copy protection defeat devices in the US.

Thanks to using a different AGC scheme Video8/Hi8 was initially immune but Sony (a major content owner interested in protecting their video inventory) inserted a special circuit to detect Macrovision and thus prevent copying, as do digital recorders and capture cards these days. (The DHR-1000 has a separate small circuit board for this function that could be pulled.)

So the Macrovision test is a single test of TBC function, but is not conclusive as to the overall TBC quality./effectiveness of the TBC.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
12-13-2022, 03:12 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,874
Thanked 2,347 Times in 2,001 Posts
Remember, Macrovision wasn't the only anti-copy. And MV had multiples types and versions. It got messy. Bad anti-copy trips up crappy TBCs, and those "removers" (clarifiers, etc) fail some % of the time, and had side effects (especially luma gain confusion, over bright segments and scenes, aka Grex sucks for this reason).

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #7  
12-13-2022, 08:08 PM
DavyJonesProctor DavyJonesProctor is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 5
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the additional info!

I got a copy of Lion King II today and did a test with part of the Bug's Life commercial. I have 4 files attached (the .avi files were too big, so I had to encode them and made them mkv for upload) - the first 3 are with my EasyCap capture card I had purchased long, long before discovering this site. One file is no frame and no line TBC, one is no frame TBC but VCR line TBC, one is frame TBC but no VCR line TBC. The last file is the Pinnacle 710 with Frame and Line TBC on.

Is the no frame/no line file showing anti-copy protection? If so, it seems like the Frame TBC and Line TBC both pretty much take care of it and have similar results - is that possible? If anything, the Frame TBC-only file seems like it has a harsher brightness to it than the line TBC-only version.

Any thoughts on these files?


Attached Files
File Type: mkv easycap noframetbc nolinetbc trim.mkv (7.59 MB, 12 downloads)
File Type: mkv easycap noframetbc yeslinetbc trim.mkv (5.68 MB, 5 downloads)
File Type: mkv easycap yesframetbc nolinetbc trim.mkv (8.72 MB, 5 downloads)
File Type: mkv pinnacle yesframetbc yeslinetbc trim.mkv (7.05 MB, 4 downloads)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
12-14-2022, 05:17 PM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA
Posts: 1,664
Thanked 354 Times in 310 Posts
Are previews copy protected? My impression is that copy protection was typically reserved for the feature movies, not the advertising.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
03-01-2023, 03:31 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 2,954
Thanked 500 Times in 462 Posts
I just picked up the Young Indiana Jones VHS tape and did a test with BE75, It captured the tape like it was never there, I had to trick the VCR to show the MV lines because they are not part of the visual frame, I paused and rewond the tape for a moment and played it back again and the lines showed up clearly for a brief moment.

https://www.youtube.com/@Capturing-Memories/videos
Reply With Quote
  #10  
03-01-2023, 06:27 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA
Posts: 1,664
Thanked 354 Times in 310 Posts
As I recall Macrovision charged on what was essentially a "per tape" basis all though with economies of scale. I wonder if with DVD killing off prerecorded VHS for feature material the content providers scrapped it for VHS late in the game as a net savings; i.e., the cost of Macrovision exceeded the losses to VHS copying by consumers. (It never stopped the serious pirates.)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
03-01-2023, 10:31 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 2,954
Thanked 500 Times in 462 Posts
Only few studios adopted it and for certain titles, MV is not a problem for me since I don't transfer commercially recorded movies. If you don't look for it you never know it exists unless you encounter a tape that has it and a device that cannot defeat it. Here is a screen shot from the same tape showing where it sits and a creepy word on the right side of the blanking area:





Attached Images
File Type: jpg MV.jpg (35.7 KB, 34 downloads)
File Type: jpg MV2.jpg (34.4 KB, 32 downloads)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
03-05-2023, 09:44 AM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,874
Thanked 2,347 Times in 2,001 Posts
Those images show the effects of MV on the luma. The overexposure is a giveaway. Some TBCs can defeat it, but not all.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #13  
03-05-2023, 01:53 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 2,954
Thanked 500 Times in 462 Posts
No, those are dark scenes under the cave, I watched the whole tape and there was no scene changes due to MV, Only the ones like when they go inside the cave.

https://www.youtube.com/@Capturing-Memories/videos
Reply With Quote
Reply




Tags
anti-copy, datavideo, macrovision, tbc, vhs

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to activate Closed Captions on JVC S-VHS deck? WestRGB Capture, Record, Transfer 8 10-14-2020 01:06 PM
Copy of a copy of a copy VHS tape? Padawan Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 8 12-10-2017 11:34 AM
Cannot re-activate Adobe CS3 software! johnhardy Computers 3 03-14-2014 04:46 PM
Do you use an anti-virus? firewall? lordsmurf Computers 3 11-21-2005 04:51 AM
ATI hacks, Macrovision/anti-copy and TBCs admin Capture, Record, Transfer 0 11-08-2004 09:59 AM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:28 AM