JVC HR-S3600U needs recap?

[AlwaysAnalog]

Just getting into VHS capture thanks to all the great info on this forum. Here is my current setup:

JVC HR-S3600U > S Video > DMR-ES15 > S Video > VC500 > Virtualdub w/ Huffyuv (configured via guide on this forum)

Previously I was using a Sony SLV-N71 with composite out and recently switched to the JVC. I was expecting a minor improvement in quality, but it looks to me like a downgrade in resolution.

I've attached two screenshots of the same frame from each VCR captured uncompressed from mpv. The colors on the JVC seem slightly more accurate (although maybe too warm?), however the resolution on the Sony is better despite being composite. Some areas that stick out are detail on the chair back is smudged on the JVC, the detail on the wood paneling, and the text.

Does my JVC need recapped? Heads cleaned? Or something else I'm doing wrong in the chain?

[hodgey]

The output looks normal, the JVC SVHS decks tend to have a bit of a soft look. The output from the Sony is a bit sharper but also has a bit more ringing/haloing around e.g letters. If you find it a bit too smeary setting picture control to EDIT can help a bit, as the JVC SVHS decks can sometimes overdo the noise reduction a bit and smear details, and EDIT turns that down/off and if not using EDIT, turning on/off video calibration may also have some impact. (I think these Sonys also have a sharpness adjustment you can play with and auto picture on/off for that matter)

[themaster1]

I got a 7700 the auto mode is blurry as hell for the record. Try the edit mode

[AlwaysAnalog]

Thank you both! I did another test with the JVC on EDIT mode with Calibration and Stabilization both OFF. To my eye the JVC still seems smeary. In Photo #1, the lines on the paper are much less defined and there appears to be some sort of weird purple fringing (not sure what the technical term is) on the JVC. When switching back and forth, the JVC gives off the appearance like it's smeared left of where it needs to be.

[themaster1]

Could be either chroma offset or chroma bleeding

[dpalomaki]

The image histograms are quite different. If brightness and hue are matched closer the Sony shows more evidence ot DSP to me, increasing the apparent sharpness by giving emphasis to transition from light to dark and back ; e.g., at lines. which I doubt is in the original material. Its a 'toon so unlike real life the colors could be anything. Its just me but I would say use what makes you happy.

[AlwaysAnalog]

Sounds like probably oversharpening then and the JVC is more accurate?

As far as the histogram, should I adjust the procamp settings in Virtualdub? Perhaps do something like record a test pattern to tape and use that to calibrate?

[hodgey]

I'm not sure if either is more "accurate" as such, there is some inherent tradeoff between ringing/haloing and softness and on VHS and other videotape formats the signal is massively sharpened (pre-emphasis) on tape so it can be softened back to reduce noise on playback so there is going some variance in how it's turned back to normal (deemphasis) between VCR models. Later VCRs also started adopting various sharpness/detail enhancement/auto adjustment stuff during recording to squeeze in more apparent detail as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpalomaki

evidence ot DSP to me,

Of those two, it's only the JVC that has any digital processing afaik (mainly for improved Y/C filtering when recording to retain more detail on SVHS). The Sony might be doing Sharpening/edge enhancement (in analog) though (and the JVC too for all I know), it's at least keeping the signal sharper than the JVC with the current settings (which may be the default ones but it also has the option of turning out the Sony analogue to Video Calibration and a sharpness setting in the menus).

The color around the blach/white area edges is probably some leftover from Y/C filtering when the tape was recorded. Maybe the Panasonic is filtering it out when it's fed the recombined signal as composite, which won't happen with the JVC since the Y(brightness) and C(color) is kept separate all the way from tape to output when using S-video (on the other hand the JVC might have some chroma noise reduction stuff instead as most SVHS decks to which standard VHS decks tend to not have).

[lordsmurf]

The Sony isn't sharper, or "more resolution". It has bad sharpening boosting. Nothing unusual here, exactly what I'd expect.

Software proc amp does nothing. Color correct in software post-capture.

Real proc amps are analog domain devices, and truly adjust before the capture. Software proc amp is basically too late to do much of anything, if at all. Software proc amp was common back when we all captured direct to DVD spec MPEG (delivery format). But that was 20 years ago, rarely done now.

[AlwaysAnalog]

Thanks a lot guys, really appreciate the quick responses and great info as usual. Very interesting hodgey about the difference in SVideo vs Composite. Definitely seems like that would explain what I'm seeing. I assume that's something I could still resolve in post.

I'll ditch the Sony and use the JVC full time since it sounds like that's going to be more accurate to what's actually on tape. Also relieved that everything seems to check out since I rolled the dice on eBay. Now time to go down the rabbithole of AviSynth

[lordsmurf]

Composite itself doesn't have to be blurry, but almost always is implemented that way.