Macrovision overexposure?

[crissrudd4554]

One thing I've noticed a lot over the years is various capture cards will give an overly bright look to tapes with Macrovision. Not all but a lot. I have a Digital Video Stabilizer that does the same thing when trying to record with a DVD recorder. Recently I got a Datavideo Digital Video Switcher to act as a external TBC in my workflow and sadly it too gives off this "overexposed" look due to Macrovision even when using capture cards that typically wouldn't give it. This is happening regardless if its a capture device or a DVD recorder but for the sake of discussion I used a capture card, a WinTV-HVR 950Q to be exact, for these examples.

With Datavideo

vlcsnap-2023-05-12-18h35m22s061.png

Without Datavideo

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As for my Workflow I'm using a JVC HR-S9900U, the Datavideo Switcher, and have been alternating with recording methods. The WinTV is typically my go to capture card but I also use DVD recorders such as the JVC DR-MV1SU, Panasonic ES15, and Sony VRD-MC6. I've even done some tests with a Panasonic AG1980 VCR instead of the JVC HR-S9900U. ALL give the overexposed look when the Datavideo Switcher is thrown in the mix. What should I do if there's anything I can do???? I dont wanna just 'do away' with the Datavideo but I don't want that overexposed look either.

[lordsmurf]

That can be the byproduct of all TBCs. It's a hot reaction to certain types of Macrovision. But it can also be from the interaction of the VCR, TBCs, and capture cards (or recorders).

So a process of elimination is required here.

What happens when the JVC line TBC is disabled?
Or field in the Panasonic?

[crissrudd4554]

JVC (line TBC off) with Datavideo

vlcsnap-2023-05-13-08h47m23s718.png

Panasonic (field TBC off) with Datavideo

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The two pics in my original post were from the JVC so for good measure here's the Panasonic (field TBC ON) with Datavideo again.

vlcsnap-2023-05-13-08h48m07s428.png

JVC seems to suffer the least exposure in both cases but nonetheless its still there.

[crissrudd4554]

What should I do next??

[lordsmurf]

Confirm IRE is set correctly. (May have been reset or defaulted.)

Quote:

Menu: Press and hold the button “BACKGROUND COLOR” for 2 seconds or more, a menu will pop up. You are able to change the camera settings, which include Brightness, Contrast, color, Tint (NTSC only), 0 or 7.5 IRE, YUV or S-video out, and color bar output.

[latreche34]

You need a proc amp before the TBC, Once the levels are clipped they cannot be recovered, so no matter what you set in the capture card it will not fix the clipping. If TBC's built in proc amp are over your budget see if you can get a mixing console, it acts as a proc amp and a TBC at the same time, They are not ideal but better than nothing. But if the Datavideo switcher has a proc amp use it.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

see if you can get a mixing console, it acts as a proc amp and a TBC at the same time, They are not ideal but better than nothing. But if the Datavideo switcher has a proc amp use it.

That's what he has. Like everything else, it had multiple versions, and this was a "do something" version, not the "do nothing" version. I think it may have just gotten reset, or the IRE somehow changed.

[crissrudd4554]

To be fair, I really have yet to see this thing do anything. I’ve been testing it the last few weeks and while I can’t comment on what this is typically supposed to be used for all I can say is as a TBC for VHS capturing at its best it will give me the same results that I was already getting without it or at its worst it’ll make things worse. Overly bright image due to Macrovision or depending on what VCR I’m using in my mix it’ll create a somewhat noisy unstable image but nothing yet that I really call an improvement on anything.

[latreche34]

As LS mentioned, Have you tried changing some settings around?

[crissrudd4554]

Which settings specifically?? Like reset it?? There’s a button that says reset that stays lit up at all times but pushing it does nothing. What’s the IRE???

For the record this is what I’m working with.

[lordsmurf]

Read the manual.

Quote:

Menu: Press and hold the button “BACKGROUND COLOR” for 2 seconds or more, a menu will pop up. You are able to change the camera settings, which include Brightness, Contrast, color, Tint (NTSC only), 0 or 7.5 IRE, YUV or S-video out, and color bar output.

[crissrudd4554]

I think I figured it out but I just wish something was actually appearing on screen that shows me proper levels because now it’s more of I have just hold the button down and decide what looks best. Not a very fruitful way of doing this but I guess it’s all this gadget has to offer.

[latreche34]

What's in the menu? Can you post a screenshot of the menu screen? Did you even read the user manual LS posted above? Slow down take easy and digest the information we are giving you.

[crissrudd4554]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

What's in the menu? Can you post a screenshot of the menu screen? Did you even read the user manual LS posted above? Slow down take easy and digest the information we are giving you.

I pushed the correct buttons and was able to manually change the brightness with the switches on the unit but no menu of any sort popped up on screen.

[latreche34]

On gear like that menus are usually assigned to separate output so you could have the menu on one monitor and video on another monitor, If you still need menu figure out what output has it or just look it up in the supplied user manual.

[crissrudd4554]

I appreciate the help but I’ve seen enough to know it’s not a useful TBC for VHS. Even when I test it on NON-copy protected tapes, when used in conjunction with my Panasonic AG1980 or my JVS s9900u (with those units respected TBC’s ON) my recordings look EXACTLY the same as when I wasn’t using this unit.

Plus even if I wanted to have a separate monitor for the menu I don’t have one to use.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by crissrudd4554

I appreciate the help but I’ve seen enough to know it’s not a useful TBC for VHS. Even when I test it on NON-copy protected tapes, when used in conjunction with my Panasonic AG1980 or my JVS s9900u (with those units respected TBC’s ON) my recordings look EXACTLY the same as when I wasn’t using this unit.

Well, not entirely. Again, the unit had unmarked versions/gens, like other DataVideos. The TBC-1000 had unadjustable IRE/luma levels, while others could be altered via settings or proc amp. It's ironic, as the units that "also had" weak frame TBC were adjustable, while mid-grade TBC-100/1000 were not, and best 3000/etc had proc amps. This is mostly because these weaker units were made for live camera work, but some iterations sufficed at the most basic level (better than nothing) for frame on VHS. Essentially, it's using items NOT as intended, but sometimes it works for it. Sometimes. This specific unit has default levels comparable to many TBC-1000s, but adjustments like some DVKs, for IRE and otherwise. But it requires a typical RTFM, as it's not a toaster. That said, these ifs/buts/asterisks are why many of us use actual higher-end TBCs. Too obnoxious, too time consuming.

Mixing with random consumer DVD recorders also does not help.

Quote:

Plus even if I wanted to have a separate monitor for the menu I don’t have one to use.

"monitor" = TV

[crissrudd4554]

Yes I know monitor meant TV but I don't have another TV to lug into this room at the moment to act as another monitor nor do I presently really have the room for it.

But just to give a sense of what I mean here's two sample clips from a non-copy protected VHS. VCR is JVC S9900U with TBC on.

With Datavideo

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xR9...ew?usp=sharing

Without Datavideo

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JdY...ew?usp=sharing

I would say 1 is a smidge brighter than 2 otherwise I really am not seeing what 1 is improving over 2. I'm not trying to sound difficult. I'm just showing what I get. Excuse the low quality. That's Google drive doing that.

[crissrudd4554]

The one thing I will say about both the Panasonic AG1980 and the JVC S9900U (can’t comment on other units with built in TBC’s since I haven’t tested many) is I hate the spots where on some tapes the built in TBC’s will cause the image to go a smidge bright or a smidge dark in spots but I still get that even with the Datavideo in the chain.