DVCPRO50 capture from BNC?

witchingseasonfilms · #1 08-03-2023, 04:52 PM

Hello,

I recently acquired a Panasonic AJ-SDC915P broadcast camera and I'm trying to figure out the easiest way to go about transferring the footage from the DVCPRO tape to my computer. I have a Firewire card in my computer but the camera does not have a Firewire port, only a BNC Video Out port. Is there some sort of adaptor that will allow me to use Firewire to capture DVCPRO tapes, or do I need a BNC/SDI capture card? Any recommendations for known devices, adapters, or cards that will allow me to accomplish this would be greatly appreciated. I am on a Windows 11 computer.

*I've tried searching the forums but haven't found much on the topic, apologies in advance if I missed something.

aramkolt · #2 08-03-2023, 08:42 PM

Hard to say for sure, but isn't DVCPro50 already a digital format? Could be that the BNC out you are seeing is actually SDI which is essentially a digital signal over a coax cable. Usually if something is already digital, you want to keep it digital rather than covering it to analog and then back to digital later. They do make SDI capture cards, but I'd check your user manual to see if the output of the camera is SDI or something else. I'd be surprised if it was composite. DVCPro50 is digital component if I'm reading things correctly from a basic search, so it would make no sense for it to output video from the camera in an analog form as the only option.

witchingseasonfilms · #3 08-03-2023, 09:18 PM

Thanks for the reply! The manual shows: VIDEO OUT (BNC): 1.0 Vp-p, 75 ohms. I don't see any other video out ports on the camera.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/11...ected=6#manual

From what I've read, BNC is the connector type whereas SDI is the video signal. So in theory, this has an SDI signal out of the BNC, and it should be digital, not analog. At least, that is if I am understanding things correctly. So perhaps I need a digital SDI capture card? Or another device that can take SDI IN and output via Firewire to my computer.

aramkolt · #4 08-03-2023, 09:27 PM

Hmm. 1v peak to peak sounds more like composite which would be anaolog. My basic Foogling suggests that SDI is 0.8v peak to peak. Guess the easy way to test would be a cheap BNC to RCA/composite adapter and seeing if you get video output on a consumer TV with composite in (yellow connector)

witchingseasonfilms · #5 08-03-2023, 09:51 PM

I can give that a shot, though wouldn't that yield the same result whether it's digital or analog?

If the camera only (somehow) supports analog BNC out, I guess my only other option would be to find a separate DVCPRO VTR or another camera that is better suited for digital video out. Maybe this one just isn't built to transfer straight out of camera.

lordsmurf · #6 08-03-2023, 11:46 PM

BNC SDI is digital out. That cameras is not analog out.

I never used one of those (turned down PO to get one, I didn't want more tapes), I was holding out for a P2 (sort of early SSD, late 2000s, MXF wrapped files), but left the company before either happened. So long ago now.

This is where Blackmagic/Aja/Matrox cards come in useful, bridges SDI to computer. It may also integrate with some appliances, from Snell & Wilcox or others.

The BM cards are under $200 or so, I have one for SDI workflows.

The software will be your next concern, and OS trying to be used for the video transfer/"capture".

witchingseasonfilms · #7 08-04-2023, 12:13 AM

Thanks for the clarification, this puts me on the right path. The camera is a beast, I found it at a thrift store and had to take a chance on it. Luckily, everything seems to work. I can’t wait to see what the footage looks like once captured.

Do you know of any specific SDI cards or hardware that will work for Windows 11? Alternatively, would something like the Grass Valley ADVC-3000 do the job?

latreche34 · #8 08-04-2023, 02:43 AM

I highly doubt the BNC output is digital, It is just basic composite for preview on a monitor, Pro camcorders are hardly used for playback, Just shoot and go back to the studio and put the tape in a VTR, You can get component out if you can find J-YA900P 26-pin/12-pin output adaptor, That's about it. If you want exactly what's on the tape you will have to get a DVCPro VTR, Something like this with firewire out.

lordsmurf · #9 08-04-2023, 05:37 AM

I don't know the specifics of that exact camera, but I don't see why it's had a single composite output. That makes no sense to me, especially on a Panasonic. If it had RCA audio out next to it, then maybe. Or two BNC, them Y/C out. But we're talking a pro level DVC camera here.

I guess this really is a case of RTFM. Of course, many M are useless.

Testing analog composite out will be as cheap as a BNC adapter ($1), plugging into HDTV composite.

When you're remote, "go back to the studio" is not an option. A lot of DV/DVC gear was intended for remote work in the field, with nothing more than a suitcase laptop, suitcase mixer and monitor (DataVideo).

Curious what the answer is now myself.

dpalomaki · #10 08-04-2023, 08:45 AM

Composite input/output of that era professional gear was well above consumer grade and did work for broadcast purposes. The Y/C separation filters in the broadcast gear were much better (and costly) than in most consumer gear.

That line of Panasonic gear (cameras, camcorders, and VCRs) was offered with a number of options that could expand the I/O capability of the camcorder. The basic version camcorder offered two composite video outputs; e.g., one for the on camera monitor and one to feed the control room. Some of the VCR's were very compact as well; sized for field work.

The DVCPRO50 format is best served by playback from a VCR. A number of variations were offered including some with SDI output, some with s-video, some with IEEE1394, some with component and combinations there of. So shop with care to be sure you get what you need.

IMO the best option today would be SDI from a VCR to PC. I use the economical BMD DeckLink MiniRecorder 4K for both SDI and HDMI capture.

witchingseasonfilms · #11 08-04-2023, 11:08 AM

Thanks for all the info, everybody! It sounds like a DVCPRO VTR is my safest bet.

Would something like this work? Sounds like I could either run the DV or SDI out for transfer/capture.

latreche34 · #12 08-04-2023, 01:15 PM

That's the size of a microwave, I linked some compact players HD and SD in both of your threads.

witchingseasonfilms · #13 08-04-2023, 01:58 PM

Thanks for that. Not too concerned about the size, as I'd only lug it out when the occasional transfer need arises. That smaller SD unit seems like a winner.

Sorry, one last question. I went ahead and bought an SDI to RCA adapter. If playback is achieved, does this confirm the SDI out is analog and not digital? If there is no signal, that would imply that it is digital. Am I understanding correctly?

witchingseasonfilms · #14 08-04-2023, 04:05 PM

Just a quick update, the SDI to RCA adapter does in fact deliver a signal to my TV. I was able to do a visual capture using a crappy USB RCA capture. This should confirm the BNC out is analog? Therefore, my only high-quality capture option is VTR.

dpalomaki · #15 08-04-2023, 08:52 PM

Quote:

...SDI to RCA adapter...

Do you mean BNC to RCA adapter? If so, then yes,it confirms the output is composite.

A VTR with SDI output can be your highest quality capture alternative.

latreche34 · #16 08-05-2023, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by witchingseasonfilms

Thanks for that. Not too concerned about the size, as I'd only lug it out when the occasional transfer need arises. That smaller SD unit seems like a winner.

You should be, because those recorders are too complicated to troubleshoot in case of a problem, When you have a player only, 50% of the problems are avoided.

witchingseasonfilms · #17 02-27-2024, 10:35 PM

Hey, all. Wanted to post a little update regarding my ongoing saga of capturing DVCPro tapes.

After months of searching, I finally came across a working DVCPro50 Deck with Firewire out at a great price. I realize in retrospect I probably should have found a VTR with SDI out, but I was willing to accept some quality loss for ease of use (I've had success transferring MiniDV tapes on the current Windows 10 machine I'm working on and assumed it would work the same way). My goal is to shoot a film with this broadcast camera and edit using Adobe Premiere Pro.

I connected the VTR via 6-pin to 6-pin Firewire cable to my PCIE Firewire card and tried "capturing" using Adobe Premiere Pro (which has been my go-to method for MiniDV tapes). This resulted in an error message saying the capture device wasn't recognized. I installed Legacy Firewire drivers for Windows and still got the same result.

After some research on alternative DV transfer software options (thanks to this forum), I downloaded WinDV 1.2.3. In the "config" box, Type-2 .avi will not work. I don't know why. WinDV crashes immediately as soon as the deck begins to play. I searched and searched for similar experiences and found little to nothing. So, I tried Type-1 .avi and it works! The files transfer and play back fine in VLC. However, when I go to import them into Premiere Pro I get this error: "Unsupported format or damaged file" error. Not surprising, as I know newer versions of Premiere Pro do not play well with .avi files.

So, I turned to Shutter Encoder in an attempt to transcode the file into a Premiere Pro-friendly format. The files import fine, but when I attempt to do the transcode I get this error:

Invalid data found when processing input
[in#0 @ 000001b8ea444140] Error opening input: Invalid data found when processing input
Error opening input files: Invalid data found when processing input

As far as I can tell, it appears the transferred DV files are somehow corrupt or damaged. Also worth noting, every single time I go to close WinDV, after transferring files, it freezes/times out and I have to force quit the program.

So, I moved on to Scenalyzer and attempted to transfer that way. In "input" I can see "Microsoft DV Camera and VCR". When I attempt to "capture" it says: "The capture device does not seem to be a DV device. ScenalyzerLive can only work with DV devices!" No idea why. I've tried Type-1 and Type-2 .avi with the same result.

I was able to successfully convert the (potentially damaged) .avi files into h.264 files using VLC, but I'm surely losing more quality than I'd like using this method.

So, I'm at a loss. Any ideas or suggestions for potential next steps would be greatly appreciated.

lordsmurf · #18 02-27-2024, 11:07 PM

NLEs do a horrible job on capturing, use DV transfer/"capture" tools instead. I don't recall off-hand if either WinDV or Scenalyzer supports DVCPRO50.

latreche34 · #19 02-28-2024, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by witchingseasonfilms

After months of searching, I finally came across a working DVCPro50 Deck with Firewire out at a great price. I realize in retrospect I probably should have found a VTR with SDI out, but I was willing to accept some quality loss for ease of use

There is no loss at all, You should be able to transfer the content of the tape into computer via firewire bit by bit with zero loss of quality. a SDI deck will just decode the video into lossless AVI which you will have to encode to a playable format.

Quote:

Originally Posted by witchingseasonfilms

So, I'm at a loss. Any ideas or suggestions for potential next steps would be greatly appreciated.

While DVCPRO is like DV, DVCPRO50 however is different, it is stored at 50Mbps and uses 4:2:2 for chroma subsampling at SD resolution, So a NLE is your best bet for transferring it, Premiere should work fine.

witchingseasonfilms · #20 02-28-2024, 10:04 AM

That makes sense. Thanks for the info.

For whatever reason Premiere isn't working. It seems to somewhat recognize my DVCPro VTR, but the capture window says: "Can't Activate Recording. Try Resetting Camera". I've tried power cycling the VTR, re-plugging the Firewire cable, etc. Perhaps my Firewire card chipset isn't compatible with DVCPro or something? Or maybe there's a DVCPro50 codec that I need to download? In the early 2000s at least, it seems Matrox's codec pack was a solution to get Premiere to communicate with DVCPro 50, but when I download and install it Premiere won't even open. It freezes at the loading screen.