Treating sticky VHS tape with airtight bag, desiccant?

[vhsnewb]

After a long pause, I’m restarting my VHS capture project, and I need to figure out what to do about several “sticky” tapes I know I have (and likely many more that I haven’t identified yet).

I posted about this before, specifically about tape baking: https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...pe-baking.html. I'd also like to explore a possibly gentler option of putting the tapes in an airtight bag with desiccant packs.

To recap, I have some tapes that sound a lot like this:

Quote:

Dealing with 'sticky-shed tape syndrome' has been one of our ongoing concerns. We receive weekly calls from VCR owners with clogged video decks caused by sticky tapes. When tapes have been stored for many years in an environment with humidity above 45%, the binder on the tape releases, causing 'sticky-shed syndrome'. This causes tapes to stick to the VCR's transport path. VCRs suddenly slow down during playback, video heads clog, and the whole tape path gets gummed up.

I have tapes with those symptoms, as well as one tape that will literally stop playback like the machine hit the end of the tape. I also have some that seem to have a minimal amount of stickiness, where I’ve been able to capture them but the VCR sounded like it was struggling in places. I've also had a couple of my VCRs get extremely gunked up, which I assume is due playing tapes like those.

I read a mention of an attempt to cure a sticky tape with desiccant in this 2013 account of the restoration of only extant copy of Game 5 of the 1973 NBA finals from a non-VHS Cartrivision tape:

Quote:

To rid the tapes of the sticky-shed syndrome, Schechter first tried to absorb the moisture by sealing the tapes in an airtight bag with desiccant, such as silica gel, for a month. That didn’t work. Then he scrubbed the tapes clean with a tape cleaning machine. The tapes were still sticky. Then he incubated, or baked, the tapes at a low temperature in a specialized oven. Still, the stickiness remained.
….
Then, at 2:00 a.m. on that Saturday morning, he raised the temperature of the incubator to just below that at which plastic melts. If Schechter was wrong, it would destroy the tapes. “I knew it was a one-way trip,” he said. “But it was either that or nothing. I was basically out of options.”
When he removed the tape 24 hours later, the plastic reels had begun to melt, but the tape stayed intact. He described the feeling as pure euphoria when both cassettes actually played from beginning to end without getting stuck and he was able to record the video digitally.

The person who was doing this "heads up the restoration division of New York postproduction house DuArt Film and Video," and had "been working with videotape for 37 years."

Has anyone heard of the technique of "sealing the tapes in an airtight bag with desiccant" or had any success with it? Ultimately he had to do an aggressive bake, but he was dealing with a worst-case tape. I’m wondering if it might be a good option to use this technique as a “standard procedure” before capturing a tape, to minimize the possibility of stickiness without the aggression and risk of baking. I have some good-quality mylar bags and fresh silica desiccant packs (I know can get the RH down to ~0% in those bags). Are there any problems with this idea that would make it unwise?

-- merged --

I was doing a little more research on this, and found this mailing list post:

https://cool.culturalheritage.org/by.../msg00340.html:

Quote:

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:03:50 -0500

....

Polyester-base audio tape, all video tape and optical discs can benefit from
being stored with desiccant if the temporary storage environment is likely
to experience high humidity. These materials include moisture only as a
"contaminant" and do very well in extremely low humidity.

Acetate-base audio tape and film should NOT, as a general rule, be sealed
with a desiccant as some moisture is necessary for their "well being".

....

Peter Brothers
SPECS BROS., LLC
973-777-5055
peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Tape restoration and disaster recovery since 1983

I understand Lord Smurf recommends SPECS BROS for tape restoration and cleaning, so I take it that opinion is trustworthy and storing VHS tapes (as a subset of "all video tape") would at least do no harm.

[timtape]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vhsnewb

I was doing a little more research on this, and found this mailing list post:

https://cool.culturalheritage.org/by.../msg00340.html:
I understand Lord Smurf recommends SPECS BROS for tape restoration and cleaning, so I take it that opinion is trustworthy and storing VHS tapes (as a subset of "all video tape") would at least do no harm.

I think it's important to note Peter Brothers' qualification. He wrote: "... all video tape and optical discs can benefit from being stored with desiccant if the temporary storage environment is likely to experience high humidity . " (My emphasis).
He's not saying this should be done routinely but in the expectation of temporary high humidity.

High humidity is a perfect environment for mould, which is a good reason to avoid such a storage environment. Mould can often be removed in preparation for playing the tape but it's not an easy task to remove it properly so better of course to reduce the risk of mould formation in the first place.

[vhsnewb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

I think it's important to note Peter Brothers' qualification. He wrote: "... all video tape and optical discs can benefit from being stored with desiccant if the temporary storage environment is likely to experience high humidity . " (My emphasis).
He's not saying this should be done routinely but in the expectation of temporary high humidity.

I think some extra context from the thread I quoted is important: Peter Brothers was answering a specific question from a woman who had to move her archive (of quite varied media) to a temporary storage location for an indeterminate period of 5 or 6 months or more. I think "temporary storage environment" was specifically referring to that woman's situation. I think the more generally relevant statement was "Polyester-base audio tape, all video tape and optical discs.... These materials include moisture only as a 'contaminant' and do very well in extremely low humidity."

But in any case, my question isn't about mold or long term storage, but about treating and preventing playback problems due to sticky tapes. If Peter Brothers thinks it's fine to store a videotape in a bag with desiccant for 6+ months, then I'd imagine he wouldn't think a tape would be damaged by doing a similar thing for only one month to treat a sticky tape (barring some sticky tape-specific complication).

Which brings me back to my original question: does this technique actually work for some sticky tapes? Is it worth trying? Is it worth doing as a preventative measure (e.g. before attempting to capture, put the tapes in a bag with desiccant for a month, then play them)?

[lordsmurf]

Physically damaged media has too many variables, and inexperienced users are rarely able to properly ascertain the methods needed to properly recover the media. So for that reason, I generally prefer to not comment in threads like this. In fact, I generally heavily dissuade users from potentially (LIKELY!) ruining them further.

I'm really not sure if a desiccant will help or harm here, or even do nothing. If you don't actually care about recovering the content, and this is merely an academic exercise, then run a full spectrum experiment. No desiccant in a bag with a tape, one "serving" in another, more in others. The "serving" size will probably be guessed.

You might even ask Spec Bros, but I'm pretty sure they'll just dissuade DIY, and strongly suggest you let them handle it.

Understand this is not typical, still less than 1% of tapes have such issues. It's far more than it used to be, but still 1%. In another decade, probably more. This is the sort of problem that will hit us in a wave, not a trickle, as we approach magnetic media EOL. VHS is 35-65 years, and we're at about year 45 for 70s tapes, years 35-40 for early 80s tapes. By 2040, I'm confident that things will quickly turn ugly. (But by then, I'll hopefully be retired, doubt I'll care too much.)

[timtape]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vhsnewb

...Which brings me back to my original question: does this technique actually work for some sticky tapes? Is it worth trying? Is it worth doing as a preventative measure (e.g. before attempting to capture, put the tapes in a bag with desiccant for a month, then play them)?

I guess the best way to know from personal experience is to try it. It seems like it wont do any harm.

It seems VHS and Betamax tapes rarely exhibit binder problems such as stickiness. I've found it hard to find a list of VHS or Beta tape brands and types which regularly require baking, whereas it's not hard to find a list for classic open reel audio tapes such as Ampex 40-, 45- etc. On his website Peter Brothers identifies some Betacam and Umatic tapes requiring treatment but I dont recall him mentioning any VHS or SVHS tapes. That doesnt of course mean there arent any.

Do your sticky VHS tapes share anything in common such as same brand, type, same storage conditions compared to the others which didnt etc? Any evidence of mould on the top of the tape packs? Is it possible these few tapes share some other problem such as sticking because of a faulty cassette including faulty parts inside the cassette?

Here is Peter Brothers' website address. Lots of useful information: http://www.specsbros.com/

[latreche34]

By the time of VHS era, magnetic tape manufacturers have almost perfected the bonding agents that adhere the magnetic particles to the plastic film, Any magnetic tape no matter how good is can have problems with poor storage conditions, Extreme heat and cold alternation as well as moisture can pretty much destroy anything. Ampex is a well known company that had/has higher failure in SSS (sticky shed syndrome), Starting from their early reel to reel audio and video tapes, to pretty much anything else, DAT, DDS data, VHS, Beta you name it.

There is a member at tapeheads.net use to work for BASF and he is one of the most knowledgeable people I've ever interacted with in terms of tape chemistry, I believe his member name is steerpike, Feel free to join and ask.

[aramkolt]

Not sure if this has ever been tried, but what about running the tapes cold - say entire VCR in a refrigerator and tapes stored in refrigerator beforehand. Typically gummy adhesives are less gummy at colder temperatures. Guessing operating temp of a VCR can handle fridge temps as long as your air isn't humid beforehand which could cause condensation on VCR parts that you wouldn't want. Maybe give that a go with a cheap VCR and a tape that you haven't been able to fix by other means. You'd probably want the top cover of the VCR off as well so that any heat generated by the power supply and other components escapes upwards without heating up the deck area.

That suggestion is really only good if your goal is to get a digital backup of the tape, don't think it's going to help you long term to reverse any damage already done or make it any less likely to progress.

If you try it, let us know how it goes!

[timtape]

"cold play" has been used with some success on (again) open reel audio tapes. See Richard Hess Degrading tapes. https://richardhess.com/notes/formats/magnetic-media/magnetic-tapes/analog-audio/degrading-tapes/
Hess mentions VHS in passing in relation to the audio tracks but makes no mention of sticking or squealing, which is strange if there are documented problems inherent in the VHS tapes.

For me the problem is finding anyone who can report stickiness in a VHS tape which is inherent to the tape, not due to external factors such as flooding, mould, contamination with sticky material etc. Has anybody here experienced such VHS tapes? Even one?
The people who should know about such cases would normally be the bigger media transfer companies or archives where a large number and variety of VHS tapes have passed through their hands over the years.

[aramkolt]

Personally haven't experienced one, but why not give it a try? Sounds like there's a good chance it will show some improvement.

I don't know that most professional transfer services would bother dealing with difficult tapes, or just run them as is and the result just is what it is. Or at least that's what some online reviews would suggest.

[timtape]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramkolt

Personally haven't experienced one, but why not give it a try? Sounds like there's a good chance it will show some improvement.

I wasnt being merely rhetorical. I for one have already invited anyone who has such a tape, to name the tape brand and type, upload a few photos, and we try in good logical fashion to eliminate every other possible cause so that it must be something in the tape manufacture itself. Then see if other samples of that tape brand and type are showing the same symptoms. If vhsnewb really has such a tape(s) it's highly likely there will be many more such tapes out there. But vhsnewb hasnt posted for some days now. Hasnt responded to questions. Not sure why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramkolt

I don't know that most professional transfer services would bother dealing with difficult tapes, or just run them as is and the result just is what it is. Or at least that's what some online reviews would suggest.

It's hard to know what can be going on. I suspect it varies greatly between different companies and individuals. But it doesnt take much intelligence to make a note of particular brands and type of VHS tapes with problems, especially companies which dont want to deal with such difficult tapes.

[vhsnewb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

Do your sticky VHS tapes share anything in common such as same brand, type, same storage conditions compared to the others which didnt etc? Any evidence of mould on the top of the tape packs? Is it possible these few tapes share some other problem such as sticking because of a faulty cassette including faulty parts inside the cassette?

I have pretty incomplete info. I have not attempted to capture all of the tapes I plan to. I also don't think the tape labels are totally reliable to determine brand. Many are unlabeled, labeled with generic labels, or (probably) a label from a different brand of tape. I'm also going off my notes and recollections from a year or two ago.

All the tapes were stored in roughly the same conditions for the last couple decades. Some of the ones I've had the most trouble with are from the 80s, so I've avoided attempting to capture similar tapes and have been saving them for the end of my project. IIRC, some of those tapes may have spent an extra decade in a midwestern basement, which is not noticeably damp or humid. None of them have been submerged, stored in non-climate-controlled conditions, etc.

Attached are some images of the "sticky" tape I've spent the most time with. I was also the first one I encountered, and after this one, if something stopped playing in the middle or struggled too much, I would just stop the capture and move on. When I started with it, it was advanced towards the end, and I couldn't rewind past a certain point with a VCR. I managed to rewind all the way to the beginning with a rewinder and did a partial capture of the beginning, but stopped after I hit the sticky area from the other direction. I have a note "friction & squeaking/stopping 1.5 hrs in."

My assumption is that I've been dealing with sticky tapes is because of the "friction & squeaking/stopping" symptom, and two VCRs that got very dirty (the one I personally opened up and tried to clean looked kind of like this photo). The guides on this tape also have a similar buildup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

But vhsnewb hasnt posted for some days now. Hasnt responded to questions. Not sure why.

This is a hobby side-project of mine. I can't work on it every day, since I have other things going on.

[timtape]

Thanks for the extra comments and images.

It's not necessarily easy or inexpensive to do but with problem tapes I'm convinced of the value of cleaning them before transfer. Here's Specs Bros on tape cleaning. Worth reading in full.

http://www.specsbros.com/white-paper...-cleaning.html

With one of your valued oldest obviously dirty tapes why not send it to Specs Bros or someone similarly skilled and equipped, for examination and a thorough clean. Specs Bros have many specialised cleaning machines. Then try playing it in a good VCR known to be in excellent condition (including its ability to wind the tape as new) and obviously with its full tape path (not just the video heads) also very clean, not just with a cleaning tape but a full manual clean.

If you arent able to do this work yourself (understandably most cant) I guess someone else with the skills and tools would need to do it. Obviously no amount of dessicant in a bag or cold play is a substitute for first removing deposits from the tape, the cassette and its fixed guides, and the VCR's tape path. Failure to properly clean the tape and cassette, sometimes before even attempting to play or wind it, and failure to use a good, well maintained VCR , always with clean tape path, seems common. Sometimes the solution is neither easy nor cheap.