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10-31-2023, 02:01 PM
TheBobBobSled TheBobBobSled is offline
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Most vhs tapes shaking horizontally on up conversion from SD to HD. Also causing audio glitching. Trying to figure out which component in the workflow is the culprit.

VCR - using a number of different VCRs
TBC - also a number of different TBCs (ex. Leitch DSP0235, Sony MPU-F100A, JVC SR-MV45 deck with TBC, etc.)
SDI - Black Magic mini converter analog to 3g SDI
CONVERSION - AJA UDC up/down/cross converter for SD to HD (1920x1080P)
PC CARD - Kona1
NLE - several. But generally resorting to AJA Control Room app and recording in ProRes.

We're generally forging ahead with shaky digitization and spot applying a stabilizer filter in a NLE afterwards which doesn't work all that well.

Not sure which item in the chain is the culprit. I'd suspect either the converter box or the PC card is not doing a good job since results don't vary with different TBCs and if the card gets a solid signal from the SDI input perhaps the SDI convert box is doing its job correctly. The only monitor out in the chain is an HDMI output on the converter box, but haven't found a monitor yet to accept the DVI output at 1080. Don't have anyway to evaluate the SDI signal.

Wondering if any others have experience with horizontal shaking on digitization and what might be the cause of it?
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  #2  
10-31-2023, 04:08 PM
aramkolt aramkolt is offline
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Guessing based on the audio glitching at the same time as shaking is most likely to be a tape recorded on a machine with improper alignment, hence your many VCRs aren't able to play it correctly. Way to tell I suppose would be to see if a commercial VHS release doesn't have the issue. Since you are using a TBC, the macrovision shouldn't matter and it should capture as normal.

I'm not super familiar with all of those TBCs, but I do have a DPS-235 and that was more or less meant to work with consumer VHS. It actually contains a TBC-IV card that was used in video toaster amiga systems, so kinda old, but definitely meant to work with VHS.

Somewhat interesting/funny demo video (which is a VHS Capture) describing what videotoaster could do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seznQmDp2pU
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  #3  
10-31-2023, 05:02 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBobBobSled View Post
Most vhs tapes shaking horizontally on up conversion from SD to HD.
I need to see samples. Please attach some tiny clips.

SD doesn't simply convert to HD, without destructive processing, and the goal is the path of least destruction. Why are you converting SD to HD, exactly, rather than leave native SD for the ingest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aramkolt View Post
but I do have a DPS-235 and that was more or less meant to work with consumer VHS.
That was not meant for consumer sources whatsoever, it was designed for BetacamSP and (at worst) S-VHS SP work, in a broadcast/studio setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aramkolt View Post
Somewhat interesting/funny demo video
But just trivia, not useful for this discussion.

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  #4  
10-31-2023, 08:57 PM
TheBobBobSled TheBobBobSled is offline
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re: tiny clip

See attached.

Thought it might be the tape(s) too because not all are doing this. But odd thing is when run thru SD workflow using Grass Valley, Canopus ADVC700 digitization turns out fine. Thus thinking it must be a component in the HD workflow causing the problem.


Bob


Attached Files
File Type: mp4 horizontalshaking.mp4 (865.3 KB, 13 downloads)
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  #5  
10-31-2023, 11:09 PM
timtape timtape is offline
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The glitch, audio and video seems to occur about once a second. Also I notice the file properties list states "SMPTE Drop 29.97". Not really my area but maybe it's something to do with a drop frame conversion or something like that.
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  #6  
11-01-2023, 04:11 PM
TheBobBobSled TheBobBobSled is offline
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The AJA UDC up/down cross converter passes thru the SDI signal with conversion settings applied.
The output settings for that box are:
SD
720P
1080i
1080psf
1080p(low) outputs 1080p29.97
1080p(high) outputs 1080p59.94

On the SDI it recognizes the vcr output signal coming into the converter box as 525i29.97.

The converter box does fine if output is set to SD or 720P, but beyond that the glitching becomes noticeable. But what we purchased it for was to do the up conversion so the kona1 card could see the HD input coming in. Maybe it's just not doing such a good job with the conversion.
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horizontal shaking, jitter, vhs

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