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11-14-2023, 11:54 AM
johnEtna johnEtna is offline
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I've bought a Panasonic ES10, because everyone suggests it as one of the best, but looking on the web it seems to wash some colors out. Is it true? Is there any soultion?
I'd like to know which Panasonic TBC(ish) device is the best at doing this job, so maybe I can buy it, and make some comparisons.

Thank you everybody!
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11-14-2023, 02:41 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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I'm not familiar with such devices but I read that ES10 has strong processing and ES20 has less, so maybe aim for an ES20?

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11-14-2023, 05:31 PM
BarryTheCrab BarryTheCrab is offline
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From the forum…
Essentially the ES-10 is strongest in line correcting.
Followed by the ES-15.
I think the ES-20 may have questionable efficacy, read the forum.
Honestly I have both the 10 and 15 but never looked close enough to see the difference.
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  #4  
11-18-2023, 09:43 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnEtna View Post
I've bought a Panasonic ES10, because everyone suggests it as one of the best,
No ... and yes.

The Panasonic ES10 is not a TBC. It's a DVD recorder that contained a strong+crippled lne TBC, and non-TBC frame sync. It has many flaws, and it should never be relied on as a TBC. Some uber-cheap people insist it's "just as good", but most notice issues with it.

I was the one that pointed out the line TBC(ish) of the ES10 back when it was first released in 2005. Some of us had arguments online at the time (davideck especially) about whether the Panasonic chip alone was a true TBC, given how it allows false anti-copy to negate it at times. But it was a game-changer for tearing issues, with the net result being better video. But when your video is already good, compared to quality S-VHS VCRs with line TBC, chased by an actual frame TBC, the ES10 makes the video worse. Sometimes just slightly worse, sometimes noticebly worse.

It's a viable budget method for home users, with just a few tapes. But as you feed it more videos, you'll see (visual) and experience (non-visual) more and more problems. It also needs to be chased with even a weak frame TBC(ish), such as modded DVKs.

Quote:
but looking on the web it seems to wash some colors out. Is it true? Is there any soultion?
I'd like to know which Panasonic TBC(ish) device is the best at doing this job, so maybe I can buy it, and make some comparisons.
No to all here. No way to fix, not best device (just cheapest, while still non-junk and viable). You can try to attentuate the signal, or use a proc amp, but it still only addresses those exact issues. Others remaind, such as posterization (color palette compression).

Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
I'm not familiar with such devices but I read that ES10 has strong processing and ES20 has less, so maybe aim for an ES20?
The ES20 has none at all, no better than any other random DVD recorder.

The ES10/15, and unreliable the ES25, are the only "TBC" type models, along with a few DVD/VHS variant combos like EH75 (but with operational issues at this late date). This is no way to get away from the strong processing of the Panasonic TBC(ish) recorders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryTheCrab View Post
From the forumů
Essentially the ES-10 is strongest in line correcting.
Followed by the ES-15.
I think the ES-20 may have questionable efficacy, read the forum.
Honestly I have both the 10 and 15 but never looked close enough to see the difference.
ES10 strongest, ES15 slightly less, but neither would affect the color issues in the first post.

The byproduct of the strength can be seen in posterization, but it's more about how well it can lock on the bad tearing sync.

You have to have ugly, ugly sources to see a difference, and those ugly sources must have types of errors that actually show the differences (not just any random ugly error). In general, we're talking about motional issues, excessive wiggle issues, on nth gen copied/copy type tapes. Essentially fanbrew tapes, amateur analog edit work. However, still, there are better methods to recover at times, noting that alternative gear has it's own negatives. Nothing in video is perfect.

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