Vertical lines from Hi8 camcorder during playback?

[HomeVideoProject]

I purchased a lightly used DCR-TRV460 on eBay to capture ~200 Hi8 tapes.

Playing back a handful of videos, I'm seeing the same distortion as the attached video below, with rainbow colored vertical lines jumping around.

To clarify, these lines also appear on the LCD screen on the camcorder, so that rules out the rest of the workflow.

I tried playing the same tapes in an older camcorder, one without a line TBC, and the image quality is good.

Is there something I can do to fix this DCR-TRV460? Or should I try my luck with buying another camcorder with a Line TBC?

[jimca]

Looks like your having a similar issue to me. See https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...lvageable.html

I wasn't able to diagnose the issue, but I tried the tapes on a different camera (CCD-TRV37, Video8, no Hi8) and they playback fine.

I ended up returning the camera and buying a new one (CCD-TRV67) from a seller that only deals in cameras per advice from lordsmurf. If you're okay with mono audio and composite video (no S-Video), I can send you the CCD-TRV37. It has line TBC and DNR. I'm happy to share some of my captures.

[AriZoNaiCe]

I have a DCR-TRV460 as well. It works perfectly. In fact, I'm amazed how well it works. Some of my Hi8 tapes don't play audio, but that's because they were likely recorded on a Hi8 camera that recorded in digital audio instead of analog (or something to that effect). I'd be willing to consider sharing the camera with you, depending on how long you think you'll be working on your project. Where are you located?

[lordsmurf]

Lines on the camcorder LCD would not be simply misunderstanding interlacing. Something is fubar with that specific camera.

This is my advice to jimca in that thread he linked:

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Just buy another quality Hi8 camera.

Unlike VCRs, TBCs, even capture cards, eBay is still "safe" for Hi8 cameras, under the following conditions:
- Look for a camera with "extra stuff" -- all cables, manuals, even a camera bag. Those tends to be well cared for, and often are being sold by the original owner, or somebody that did buy/use/resell for digitizing.
- Avoid sellers with high feedback numbers, who are selling random crap. Those are recyclers. Most listings are from these schmucks.
- Ask questions. Any questions. What you want to see is the quality of the response, if any.
- There is a reseller of camcorders (he sells nothing else), and he's decent.

Hi8 cameras should not run more than $200 currently, and you sometimes see units under $100.

There are still some pockets of cheap good gear, and this is one of them. This could change any year now (and eventually, it will happen), so enjoy it while it lasts. This is a current glut of used supply.

[HomeVideoProject]

Thanks for the fast responses and generous offers to let me rent/borrow your camcorders.

Last night I placed an order for another camcorder, this time a DCR-TRV350, which also contains a line TBC. I will be traveling for work for the next couple of weeks, but will be able to test once I'm back on the 21st. If I am running into similar issues with that camcorder, I'll report back here and PM you.

-- merged --

I managed to test the new camcorder that came in just before leaving for my trip.

I captured a few Hi8 tapes and they all have a similar dot pattern like in the sample below. Is this just an interlacing issue? It's also strange that there's 3 vertical darker bands on the blue screen before the video starts playing.

All help is appreciated!

[lordsmurf]

That's not interlace, or related.
That may be related to the cable. s-video? Try the composite.

[themaster1]

lose connector (bad solder) or bad cable 100%

[HomeVideoProject]

I've had a chance to try a few other permutations, including buying new S-Video cables.

Trying a random sampling of ~15 other tapes shot on the same ancient Hi8 Camcorder, the S-Video transfer from the DCR-TRV350 looks great.

The first few tapes that I tried that had the weird effect, however, still have that weird dot effect. I've tried running those tapes via composite and they actually look better (still attached below).

Is there anything that would cause these specific tapes to look better via composite? Should I just write it off as a lesson learned that some old tapes will behave weird and move on?

[lordsmurf]

There are rare situations where composite looks better than s-video, usually due to something that happened at recording time of the tape.

Workflows can also have hardware conflicts, generally when the signal output from one device is hated by another.

Best of all, both can be true at the same time, and more often than you'd think, in these specific fringe/edge cases. It's just a cascade of "everything that can go wrong, has gone wrong".

However, that said, it still does appear to be s-video cabling related, or port related. Likely a second dud camera, sadly not uncommon these (buying 1990s gear in 2020s).

Contrary to what some seem to think, I'm not a perfectionist, but rather pragmatist seeking quality. I'm The Price Is Right. I want to get as close as possible, but without going over(board). Videophiles are the nuts that want that extra 1% quality (at any cost of time/money), and that's not me. So, that said...

Right now, you find yourself at a juncture:
- continue to troubleshoot, for best quality captures
- decide that the slight % quality hit via composite does indeed look decent enough as-is, and just capture it, move on with the project

Contrary to what some falsely think, composite itself is not soft/blurry/bad. It can be, and usually is. But that's a statement about how crappy the device is, not composite itself. From what I see in these samples, the composite you're getting here is fairly sharp, and lacks any typical chroma offset issues.

So:
- You have good gear in use, and are getting a quality stable image, aside from the single s-video issue on certain tapes.
- You have troubleshooted to your best effort.

If you want to capture composite, call it day, move on, you have my approval.

The only sticking point here would be that the composite appears slightly less saturated. And perhaps that's actually a function of preventing chroma issues on the composite output. Since you have a quality TBC with proc amp, perhaps boost it by +1 to +4 or so. This assumes the s-video isn't wrong, and it's oversaturating colors. Let your eyes be the budge, with calibrated monitors, using waveforms to verify yourself/values.