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01-22-2024, 07:15 PM
BmacSWA BmacSWA is offline
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So, this is a two-fer with each Fer maybe having a two-fer in itself. here we go...

I've Benn capturing VHS and Hi8 in the mostly accepted method of the forum (VHS, capture card, virtual dub capture, QTGMC to 60fps, FCPX) for a while and have decided to move to more modern capture cards so I'm not saddled by WinXP and older AGP based hardware. I've been playing with the AJA Kona LHe+ and so far I like it. I does clean up the capture a bit, but is still no replacement for a quality VCR and TBC, which you'll still need in the flow. As a matter of fact Lord Smurf is furiously working on getting two of these items to me any day now! Right LS? But, my issues are this...

The 10 bit raw capture files are ENORMOUS as I expected, but 1) can these .move files be run through VirtualDub with an AVSpmod script to deinterlace and convert to 60fps then edit in FCPX just as the Huffy 2.1.1 captures could? 2) What format should I convert the 10 bit captures to in order to archive them as I kept the Huffy 2.1.1 captures as an archive before.

I'm looking forward to see why you all think.

Brian
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  #2  
01-22-2024, 11:06 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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If you can capture at 8bit do so, there is no need for 10bit unless you are capturing some studio grade Betacam rarities. I find HuffYUV 8bit 4:2:2 SD files not that large at all.

https://www.youtube.com/@Capturing-Memories/videos
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  #3  
01-22-2024, 11:49 PM
mrmuy97 mrmuy97 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BmacSWA View Post
AJA Kona LHe+ [...] does clean up the capture a bit, but is still no replacement for a quality VCR and TBC, which you'll still need in the flow.
I don't think it does much at all to "fix" anything, though I haven't extensively tested it in an effort to find out.
I agree that, especially for home videos and other non-retail/broadcast sources, external timebase correction to send a good, clean signal is necessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BmacSWA View Post
The 10 bit raw capture files are ENORMOUS as I expected
I encourage comparing the same capture in 8-bit versus 10-bit to be certain you see a visual improvement in the 10-bit captures before committing to do everything in 10-bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BmacSWA View Post
1) can these [.MOV] files be run through VirtualDub with an AVSpmod script to deinterlace and convert to 60fps then edit in FCPX just as the Huffy 2.1.1 captures could?
I recently read someone state that they were deinterlacing 10-bit with QTGMC in Hybrid with no issues. Can't remember if format/codec specs were provided for that, and I haven't tried it with any 10-bit files myself. If uncompressed 10-bit .MOV isn't supported, try DNxHD and ProRes422HQ (both in 10-bit).

I'd again encourage comparing the same capture with each codec you're considering, and look for any quality improvement or loss.
As you said, this is also involved in your 2nd question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BmacSWA View Post
2) What format should I convert the 10 bit captures to in order to archive them as I kept the Huffy 2.1.1 captures as an archive before.
In my opinion the most common codec options in Control Panel/Room like ProRes and DNx variations will be fine to keep for a long time since they're so popular. Not sure about DPX, though I've seen it touted as a great archive choice.
I say the 1st question is related to this question because I'd prefer to capture lossless uncompressed in .MOV, and either deinterlace via QTGMC and then archive, or if you prefer, archive without deinterlacing.
That's also why I say to compare captures with the different codecs you're considering, as maybe ProRes422HQ or DNxHD are a better choice for you if it is visually indistinguishable to you versus lossless uncompressed but works better for your workflow going into an editor and then archiving without forcing any additional lossy changes to the file. I'd rather capture in the highest-quality format that can go straight through the workflow from there, e.g. deinterlace --> edit --> archive without changing file/codec type.

recommended vcr+line tbc ---(Y/C)--> recommended frame tbc or "tbc-ish" ---(Y/C)--> capture
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  #4  
01-23-2024, 08:33 AM
BmacSWA BmacSWA is offline
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Yes, Iím not married to 10 bit, thatís just what control room seemed to default to. Iíll play with it, but I have to say it captures nicely. Beats the vc500 fo sho, Iíd just like to settle on an acceptable flow.
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  #5  
01-23-2024, 12:06 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmuy97 View Post
I encourage comparing the same capture in 8-bit versus 10-bit to be certain you see a visual improvement in the 10-bit captures before committing to do everything in 10-bit.
There is going to be no visual difference, It's just less rounding errors at the dithering level in the ADC stage. Remember this is a lossless conversion, each pixel is created individually, It's not like compression codecs where pixels are mimicked to the point you can see the visual artifacts.
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  #6  
01-23-2024, 03:21 PM
mrmuy97 mrmuy97 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BmacSWA View Post
Yes, Iím not married to 10 bit, thatís just what control room seemed to default to.
Ah, then just change capture settings from YUV10 to YUV8 and that'll switch you from 10-bit to 8-bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BmacSWA View Post
Iíll play with it, but I have to say it captures nicely. Beats the vc500 fo sho, Iíd just like to settle on an acceptable flow.
Yes, good capture, but only when paired with a specific workflow.

That's why these pre-owned AJA cards are only worth a few dollars now, and less every day as they just get older. For most people they now have zero value.
Only the latest, brand new cards with the newest features are worth money, since the entire video industry wants them. Once they're outdated, and the eBay junkers list them, there's a huge supply, and no more demand.

Have to be careful saying anything is good, because people will read this and think all they need is to spend $10 on one of the used (and "tEsTeD aNd WoRkInG!!" ) AJA cards from all the garbage peddlers on eBay, slap a cheap VCR in, and then be shocked when there's more to it than that. Don't want to give people the wrong idea and make it sound easy, as there's already more than enough of that going around the internet. Using gear not made for the consumer retail market has more of a learning curve for most people. And this particular gear requires the VCR, cables, TBC, and other components to all be good quality as well.

recommended vcr+line tbc ---(Y/C)--> recommended frame tbc or "tbc-ish" ---(Y/C)--> capture
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