Passthrough on component video out, Panasonic DMR ES15?

[guyburns]

I have a capture device that has Component inputs. When the DMR ES15 is used in passthrough mode, does the signal appear on the S-video and Component outputs at the same time?

[hodgey]

The signal appears on all outputs* yes though the component outputs can be switched between interlaced and progressive scan modes so make sure to select interlaced in the menus if using it. Some here have claimed some of these have some odd brightness behaviour on the component outputs, I've not really tested component much on these so can't conform or deny. Some later NTSC ones only output progressive scan on the component output but I think this one still has interlaced 480i output available there.

* The SCART output on PAL models doesn't output RGB and S-Video at the same of course time since that would be impossible as those share one of the wires so that's switchable in the menus.

[guyburns]

Thanks for the reply. How does the internal processing work? Like the following?

• Signal comes in on S-Video and is converted to YPbPr.
• The signal is processed, improving some aspects like tearing, but degrading others.
• The processed signal, still in the YPbPr colour space, is sent directly to the Component outputs.
• It is also sent to the S-video output, after being converted to the YC colour space, undergoing slight degradation.

If that is what is happening, is the Component output therefore of better quality than the S-Video output?

One more question. This web page shows the specs for the international model. Both PAL and NTSC are mentioned for Australia. So it's a universal unit for playback, recording, and passthrough?

[hodgey]

I believe it's something like that yeah (some digital processing happens around the Pb/Pr separation, and more complex Y/C separation in case of composite, some after the exact details are going to be proprietary). SO in theory the component output skips one step and should be marginally better quality. However, I know at least the earlier PAL/international models have a design flaw on the standalone s-video output causing some brightness pumping issues so it's not impossible that they could have screwed up and done something similar on component out as well, or maybe whoever reported having issues with component out on their model was just having a bad unit.

The models sold outside north america and Japan can be switched between NTSC and PAL (and at least the european ones also handle SECAM input) so yeah they work for both. The US models do actually use the exact same digital PCB so it's not impossible they're only limited to NTSC by what firmware is in them but since the rest of the unit is different you probably couldn't just drop the digital board from a european unit in there and expect it to work.

[guyburns]

Thanks for all the info, hodgey. Very helpful. There's a couple of these units on eBay Australia at the moment for around the $150 mark. If the unit I buy is any good, I may end up with three captures for the price of one (see this thread), instead of my original aim of two: no-passthrough, passthrough, and the DVD recording itself.

Unless someone else has definitive additional info, I think we can bring this thread to an end.

[lordsmurf]

The problem with component (RGB or YUV) is that it's not the Y/C stored on the tapem and therefore requires internal processing to create RGB/YUV from the Y/C data.

Given that DVD recorders are all low-end consumer devices, it's rarely truly good processing, but rather "good enough" -- as in the consumer is deemed too stupid to notice the bad quality defects, or so goes the thought process at the manufacturer some 20+ years ago when DVD recorders were in production. In the case of DVD recorders, defects are many, especially messing with values (IRE, gamma, luma, chroma, etc), and artifacts (blocks, aggressive, posterization, etc).

When you/we say things like "good enough", realize you're/we're proving the manufacturers correct. You/we are too stupid to know any better. They win ($$$$), we lose (lower quality items).

When you start using items in ways not intended by the manufacturer, such as passthrough, some defects tend to get amplified, which is what happens here.

Just be cognizant of it, don't try to ignore it or make excuses for it. It is what it is.