What is the best capture card?

[ammonrose]

Right now I have a JVC HR-S7600U VCR. I’m planning on buying a DataVideo TBC 1000 in the future and I’m not sure what would be best for a capture card. The most well known is the Elgato USB, but I’m sure there are better out there for this setup. Also, if there’s a better TBC than the DataVideo TBC 1000 let me know and I’ll set my sights on it.

Thank you

[lordsmurf]

The best card depends on factors, mostly OS, but sometimes source.

Elgato earned the nicknamed "Elcrapo" for video capture (even if their other non-video products are quite good).

DataVideo TBCs are simply popular, not necessarily "best" -- especially given how most are now failing, or require mods. If you can get a rebuilt/refurb'd/modded unit, you'll be fine. That also means avoiding eBay entirely, as those are always in random condition, almost never sold by actual users/owners (which easy to see, as those sellers have lots of random crap for sale).

Remember to look in the marketplace for TBCs. Several available right now, from myself and others.

But back to the capture card...

Which OS?
- WinXP/7 best
- WinVista/8 can go either way
- Win10/11 worst
- No real quality Mac/Linux paths

You never want to use your daily computer for capture, not a computer that is online, as those "do stuff" (updates, etc) that can cause dropped frames, capture glitches, etc.

In general, specific ATI and Pinnacle cards are best. (Not any random ATI/Pinnacle, some are awful.)

[ammonrose]

Oh, interesting. I didn't know a specific OS would be best. I have VM's running on my server, I could run WinXP/7, would that work? Or do I need to buy a computer with that OS on it?

Also, if TBC 1000's aren't necessarily the best, given my setup with WinXP/7 and a JVC HR-S7600U VCR, what TBC would you recommend?

[lordsmurf]

VMs do not work, bare metal required.

7600U suggests U.S., correct? Only NTSC, never any PAL?

More info about your source tapes can help as well, both for TBC and capture card.
Tell me more about your project:
- How many tapes?
- What recording mode are your VHS tapes? SP, LP, EP/SLP, or a mix? If mix, % of each? If not known, guestimate. (What you don't want to do is put these tapes in a ratty old VCR, and have the tapes get damaged.)
- What % of your VHS collection is from a camcorder, a VCR, and retail?
- What era are your tapes from, % of each? 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s?
- Are you aware of any problems with the tapes? Either with the signal, or physical? (mold, etc)

TBC-1000 can indeed be best for you. Or not. It depends on factors. I help guide you to capture success.

Timing also matters. Is this something you want to do
- now? (this week, next week)
- soon? (this month, next month)
- or unknown future date?

[ammonrose]

Concerning my VCR, U.S. is correct. Only NTSC.

Source Tapes:
I have only have 4 right now, but that number will increase substantially in the near future. To give some context, I have a handful of Disney movies on VHS that I would like to digitize. They are the only version where they are unedited (Disney edits a lot of their content these days), and I'd like to have them digital before the tapes degrade even more. Once I finish those, I'm going to take my dad's home videos and digitize all of those as well. They were mostly shot on his camcorder with those small VHS tapes. I can't remember what they're called. Hi8's I believe? I'll clarify with him this week.

As far as recording mode, I am unfamiliar with this terminology, but it being Disney tapes for now, is there a way to know for sure? As for my dad's tapes, is there a way to tell on them as well?

My Disney movies are all from the 90's (1990, 1992, 1995), my dad's tapes are another story. Again, I'll clarify with him this week, but for now we can focus on the Disney VHS tapes.

I am unaware of any problems with the tapes except for one of them. Only because I recently watched it. It has that fuzzy black bar go up and down only for a second or two near the end of the tape. It makes a fuzzy noise with the audio. If that's unfixable, it's fine. It's not even that bad.

Hopefully that's some good info I provided. If there's more you need from me, ask away! Thank you for your help!

[lordsmurf]

SP for the Disney.

VHS-C and 8mm-based tapes (Video8, Hi8) are different. The same-ish for the signal processing, the capture/TBC needs. But the decks/cameras to play will be vastly different. A suggested Hi8 camera with line TBC may be in your future.

What about timing to acquire the gear, then start the project?

[ammonrose]

Okay great! I'll look around for a Hi8 camera with line TBC in it!

As far as timing goes, I've got all the time I need. There is no rush to get these tapes digitized. I want to make sure I know what gear I need to get, purchase it when I can afford it (depending how expensive certain tools are) and then digitize the tapes.

As for right now I'm focused on the Disney tapes since I have them with me currently. What would be the best setup for them? Hopefully my VCR is good, but what about the capture card and TBC?

[aramkolt]

Ah yes, the good old "best capture card" question haha. I've acquired like 10 different cards and still don't know the answer to that. I do plan to test them against each other though.

There are definitely some pros and cons to different chains. If you want the "best" captures, you'll probably want to capture lossless and keep in mind that those captures will take up around 40GB per hour. Yes, hard drive space is cheap these days, but working with large files like that can be annoying depending on your setup and if you are planning to make any backup copies of the lossless files.

You also may want to take into account if you want your capture card to be AGP, PCI, USB and if you'll be doing the post-processing on the same machine as you capture it on. Certain capture software works better in certain OS's as well.

[Tea Monster]

I've collected a few capture cards. Weirdly enough, I've found that my 101 Dazzle has got the best picture. I have a Philips 878 card, a Dazzle 101 and a combo of avermedia and other cards. I found that the 878 card worked fairly well, but the Dazzle had a slight edge. I was a bit shocked as I am under no illusions about the Dazzle being anything special.

I have a few MPEG capture cards but I don't know what to use on Windows XP to capture the signal from them. I usually use VirtualDub to capture AVI direct to disk. I don't know if the result would be any better.

My capture setup is:
Panasonic NV-J47
Panasonic DMR-ES15 (used in pass-through as a signal stabiliser)
Dell Inspiron 530 - Core2Duo with SATA SSD and Windows XP
My other capture system that I used with the Dazzle was a Lenovo i3 laptop running windows 7.
In both cases I'm using VirtualDub to capture to AVI.

I documented some of my findings here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYcmK_l5TGI
I say in the soundtrack that I have Philips equipment but I had Philips on the brain from dealing with an audio issue on the card I was testing.

In the video, I compare my efforts to a professional capture company that I employed. They used a Canopus signal converter and they had an S-VHS deck and some sort of proper TBC. I found that the image quality wasn't as good in that it was a bit smeary and dark. The Dazzle came out with the best picture, which was a shock to me. Either the Dazzle is a lot better than I thought it should be, or I'm doing something else really wrong.

In this video, they test the Dazzle against an Avermedia card. The quality looks similar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhZyk72I9Q4

I'd just like to know what is the best capture method to use in these circumstances. I don't want to spend thousands of pounds that I don't have. My machine doesn't have an AGP slot.

TLR - What is the best capture method in my circumstances to capture old VHS video? Is some form of old PCI card such as the BT878 or a Leadtek? Or is some form of USB best?

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tea Monster

I've collected a few capture cards. Weirdly enough, I've found that my 101 Dazzle has got the best picture. I have a Philips 878 card, a Dazzle 101 and a combo of avermedia and other cards. I found that the 878 card worked fairly well, but the Dazzle had a slight edge. I was a bit shocked as I am under no illusions about the Dazzle being anything special.

That's not surprising, as BT8x8 and Aver cards are notoriously terrible -- or at least they were in the 2000s, a fact many forget or never knew. Dazzle probably is "better", but it's like saying a cat turd smells better/lesser than dog turd.

Quote:

My capture setup is:
Panasonic NV-J47
Panasonic DMR-ES15 (used in pass-through as a signal stabiliser)
Dell Inspiron 530 - Core2Duo with SATA SSD and Windows XP
My other capture system that I used with the Dazzle was a Lenovo i3 laptop running windows 7.
In both cases I'm using VirtualDub to capture to AVI.

That all seems fine for a barebones setup.

Quote:

I documented some of my findings here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYcmK_l5TGI

Right when that video starts, I see obvious dropped frames in the capture.

Quote:

In the video, I compare my efforts to a professional capture company that I employed. They used a Canopus signal converter and they had an S-VHS deck and some sort of proper TBC. I found that the image quality wasn't as good in that it was a bit smeary and dark.

They crushed all your darks. Being PAL, the DV color is awful.

Quote:

The Dazzle came out with the best picture, which was a shock to me. Either the Dazzle is a lot better than I thought it should be, or I'm doing something else really wrong.

You've seen that it's "least worse", but not actually good. There are several better cards.

Quote:

I'd just like to know what is the best capture method to use in these circumstances. I don't want to spend thousands of pounds that I don't have. My machine doesn't have an AGP slot.
TLR - What is the best capture method in my circumstances to capture old VHS video? Is some form of old PCI card such as the BT878 or a Leadtek? Or is some form of USB best?

The specific ATI AIW USB, or the specific Pinnacle cards, that I have in the marketplace, are remarkably better. I say "specific", because there are versions of each, both good and bad. Then you have the ATI 600 USB and clones. Those will be a huge leap in quality here.

[Aya_Rei]

Also at 42 seconds in there is a camera screenshot showing VirtualDub2 capturing a tape. You can make out that it says

Frames Dropped: 410
Frames Inserted: 407

Granted, I have no idea what capture device was used during that specific capture. Also thanks to YouTube compression it is hard to see what FPS it is being captured at, but it looks to be 60?

[Tea Monster]

That was using the Dazzle on the Windows 7 i3 laptop. As I said, I know the Dazzle is basic at best. I'm recording interlaced in lagarith and then using QTGMC to de-interlace and convert to a higher frame rate. After experimenting with various PCI cards, which I assumed would have higher quality, I gravitated to the dazzle as that had decent quality and actually was reliable to capture (minus sound sync issues).

I originally tried to capture this video project in 2010. I sourced a £40 or so PCI capture card from Maplins (a large UK electronics company that has since gone bust, sadly) That card did an amazing job.I still have the capture files from that period and they are of exceptional quality.I just wish I could remember what card it was.

I had some personal stuff happen and I suspended the capture efforts. I should have continued and grabbed all the tapes then. Since that time, the tapes unfortunately were attacked by mould and there was massive signal degradation.

Lord Smurf: As you have said, the problem with a lot of these things is that manufacturers will often try to save money by using cheaper components over time. I have an ATI PCI capture card that uses a conexant chip and actually installs using the Philips 878 drivers under Windows XP. It may be a driver issue, but it actually looks slightly worse than the Philips card I have. So buying a particular brand isn't a guarantee of quality. You have to take into account model numbers, chipsets and date of manufacture. The dazzle I have isn't the latest model, and I wonder if that is why it looks as good as it does. I've not cracked the case to see what chips it uses. I don't really want to buy a modern one to find out either. Oddly enough, with the 878 cards, conexant was a brand to avoid from my tech support days dealing with PC sound card/modem combos.

Ideally you should be able to buy something off the shelf easily and hook it up to your modern computer with ultrafast M.2 drives and GPU CUDA cores and do this in a flash in premium quality. Sigh. I had no idea when I dug my tapes out of storage that this would be such a rabbit hole. Thankfully I have a technical background and producing an old machine that runs XP isn't a problem, though I don't currently have a machine with an AGP slot, though one could definitely be obtained.