Datavideo TBC-3000 too bright with Macrovision tapes?

[ENunn]

Trying to transfer a tape that I think has Macrovision, and for the life of me I can't get the levels right. I have my TBC-3000 set to the defaults and everything is too blown out. I've tried two capture cards (the I-O Data GV-USB2 and the Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1290) and my Retrotink 5X and they all have the same issue. But my CRT TV displays it perfectly fine.

I've tried messing with the proc amp, but I'm going in blind. I can't get a good result. Does anyone have any advice on what to do? I've only experienced this with some (but not sure if it's all) Macrovision tapes. Otherwise, my experience with the 3000 has been excellent!

Levels from the raw video


Levels adjusted in Avisynth

[lordsmurf]

Certain Macrovision pisses off TBCs (and everything else but the CRT TV set). This may also be a rarer case where line + frame can also backfire. Disable line in your JVC, see what happens.

For some MV, different TBCs (which are actually less useful in other scenarios), and "ignore" capture cards, may be needed.

Sometimes nothing you do will allow capture without image defects.

And it's usually cartoon tapes with the issue. Some The Tick tapes are nasty, and certain Cartoon Network tapes.

[ENunn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Certain Macrovision pisses off TBCs (and everything else but the CRT TV set). This may also be a rarer case where line + frame can also backfire. Disable line in your JVC, see what happens.

Didn't change anything sadly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

For some MV, different TBCs (which are actually less useful in other scenarios), and "ignore" capture cards, may be needed.

Sometimes nothing you do will allow capture without image defects.

And it's usually cartoon tapes with the issue. Some The Tick tapes are nasty, and certain Cartoon Network tapes.

Yeah, I guess it's the TBC, I had a capture of the same tape from when I didn't have a TBC and the levels looked fine. So I dunno what I should do.

[lordsmurf]

This is why many of us more serious collectors have multiple VCRs, multiple TBCs, multiple capture cards. You just get such a wide variety of errors from tapes, and no single piece of gear masters them all. For all almost homemade tapes, and most retail tapes, what you want is the standard JVC/Panasonic and DataVideo/Cypress combo. But some errors, including the artificial errors (aka anti-copy, including Macrovision and others), you have to use compromise gear (better at X, worse at Y).

Since this is toons, my hobby, I'm always willing to look at why a tape does what it does, and see what gear combo will work. Maybe create a workflow recipe for others to follow, who are running into issues with anti-copy.

[ENunn]

Just wanted to post an update:

I recently got myself a Panasonic AG-1980P, and I do not have this issue anymore. I guess something in the JVC was setting off the 3000.

[aramkolt]

Some JVCs have hot luma outputs in general I've found. Either a hardware proc amp or using the controls with your capture card may be able to bring that down. Basically you just want to see that there's no "clipping" where the brightest whites are completely "flat" on a waveform monitor (either software or hardware). If the highest points of the wave look flat, then that means that anything above a certain level was assigned the "brightest" value at some stage in the chainand you've just lost some dynamic range permanently. My guess is that your JVC would also work on your tape with the right proc amp adjustments. The TBC3000 I thought did have a built in proc amp though that I'd think would work appropriately? That or perhaps it doesn't have much in the way of range adjustment maybe?

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramkolt

Some JVCs have hot luma

That's not a JVC issue, as it happens on Panasonic and others. It's a tape signal issue. It's very random, and one of the very reasons that many serious hobbyists/pros own multiple VCRs. Sometimes switching VCRs fixes a tape, sometimes not. Sometimes a different VCR will play the same tape too dark, and the Goldilocks "just right" cannot be located Again, the tape is at fault. It doesn't matter how "good it looks", as it's a signal issue, not visual.

When a TBC locks it too bright or to dark, that's a guarantee the signal is crap. You'll often see this on VCR copied retail tapes that "ignored" Macrovision. No, nothing was ignored, the anti-copy (fake/artificial signal issue) just became embedded.