Diamond VC500 capture interference?

[Menyman]

Hi,

I'm having some issues capturing video which I didn't use to have in the past.
I'm using VC500 on Windows 11 (however tried also on Windows 7 and getting same issues) - in the past I got great quality conversion from VHS to digital (converted a lot of tapes).
Now it seems that all of the VHS tapes that I'm trying to convert has a weird similar interference which I can't solve.
It's not a problem with the VCR, tried plugging it to a TV - looks good and normal.

Uploaded an example of this interferance (link)

Will appreciate your help very much

[lordsmurf]

Welcome.

This is a known flawed/bad card, with issues even beyond what you've run into here. The worst issue is the aggressive AGC, with random brightening/darkening of the image.

The "fix" here is a better card.

What you're seeing there is probably a combination is issue: lack of any TBC, along with known instabilities of various capture cards in post-Win7 (Win10/11) environments.

Remember, the recipe for quality capture is not just "random old VCR > cheap capture card from Amazon". The must be (at minimum) some form of TBC, combined with a stable VCR and capture card. Specific brands/models (and often versions), not randomness.

So, let's start here: what is your realistic budget for this project. Hint: it has to be vastly more than the cost of a cheeseburger. These are tools for a task. And when done with that task, resell them. Quality tools hold value, junk is yours forever. Quality tools = quality conversion quality. Junk = junk.

[Menyman]

Thanks for your reply
Is it possible that the capturing card had just degraded over time?
I've already captured a lot of tapes (~30), with decent quality which is actually good enough for me.
I'm not looking for professional equipment, just not sure why I get this behavior suddenly.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menyman

Thanks for your reply
Is it possible that the capturing card had just degraded over time?

No, extremely unlikely given the information/samples here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menyman

I'm not looking for professional equipment, just not sure why I get this behavior suddenly.

Nothing suggested to you is professional equipment. Not sure why you think that, where you heard/read that.

Some form of TBC is required, period -- or you get all sorts of random errors, everything from audio de-sync, to what you see here (wildly unstable signal). The most minimalist basic form of TBC is the ES10/15 with a strong+crippled line-only TBC(ish), and a non-TBC frame sync. The exact error here is likely compounded, a signal issue, and so a weaker frame TBC(ish) like a modded/preset DVK is suggested.

- ES10/15 is a consumer DVD recorder once sold at Best Buy, for under $300 new.
- DVK is a lower-end small-studio device, used by high school students and wedding videographers, available at CDW and B&H, for under $1k new. To call it "professional" is a stretch.

The errors you're seeing do not happen in a vacuum. The VC500 is a touchy card, no resiliency to bad signals. It falters at the smallest issue. It's extremely likely a compound error, between the drivers and the incoming signal.

At very least, you need another card. To be blunt, in order to not mince words, not allow exceptions, that VC500 card is a piece of crap, for multiple reasons. I do have to wonder what the "good enough" tapes already capture look and sound like (including sync).

A "better" (though still not suggested) card is the GV-USB2, but you're still going to shell out about $75 for it. And then "in for a penny, in for a pound", may as well completely resolve a situation, not half-ass it (and waste more time). In this instance, add the ES10/15, or the modded/preset DVK. It is minimal, passable, mediocre quality. But better than nothing. And all that gear will resell.

Otherwise, not sure what to tell you. I guess you can random buy another VC500, hope for the best, but I doubt that will end well for you.

[Menyman]

Please disregard the "professional equipment" comment.
All i mean is that i'm not willing to invest $300-$1000 for capturing 2-3 tapes.

I just want the previous perforamce which i got with the shitty VC500, don't understand what suddenly went wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

I do have to wonder what the "good enough" tapes already capture look and sound like (including sync).

Basicaly, mediocre quality, without the interference which is shown in the example video.
The audio-video sync is good, no problems there.

[lordsmurf]

For just 2-3 tapes, I don't blame you.

But the fact remains: at minimum, a new card is likely needed. Either due to the card failing, or from lack of any "signal lock" (some form of TBC, combined with a less touchy card). It would be daft to buy the same crummy card, upgrading to something better suggested.

Normally, Win10/11 would get (and deserve) the blame here. But you tried it on Win7, and it failed there as well. So while not impossible, just extremely unlikely, the card may have failed. But morel likely is that those specific tapes have signal issues preventing captures -- and yes, even if the others did not.

You can attempt "different drivers", but I'm not aware of alternate drivers even existing.

Let's perhaps back up for a second. Did you attempt different software, and not use the junkware that comes with the card? Ideally VirtualDub 1.9.x, which is available here in the forum. This is also extremely unlikely to change anything, as what you're seeing is almost always cause by drivers and/or lack of TBC. But you can at least test this hypothesis for free.

What you're seeing here is not new or unusual in any way. Been there, done that, when it comes to troubleshooting VC500 problems. Again, the "fix" is to use something better.

Yes, the quality of that MP4 quite bad, even during the "good" segments. I'm guessing you're using the low-end included software, capturing direct to MP4? (H.264 at an obviously low bitrate).

[Menyman]

No,
I'm using VirtualDub 1.9, capturing losseless with Huffyuv codec.
Afterwards compressing to H264 MP4 with x264vfw codec.
Anyway, the same happans with VD and with the included SW..

Also tried now the original drivers from the VC500 CD instead the ones on the website (troubling enoguh to find a CD player nowdays..)
Didn't work.

I understand what you're saying, and I appreciate it.
Since I have some electronics background (Hardware engineer) I suspected that the HW have may been degraded and an easy replacement can fix the issue. Wonder if that may be the case

[lordsmurf]

I've read where the "CD version" and the "download version" are actually the same. Look closely. I've misplaced my VC500 disc, so cannot confirm on my end.

You can always crack it open, examine the chips and board. But these USB capture cards, in terms of hardware build quality (not image/etc quality) are fairly robust. Even the cheapo Easycaps (Easycraps) are like this. There's really no components that will easily give out. Maybe if you leave it in excessive heat conditions, and some of the solder flows (assuming it has much/any at all).

(NOTE: Now, excessive heat storage, for long periods of time, is very common on eBay-bought USB capture cards, as many of those come from non-temp-controlled storage units, attics, basements, garages. Just old crap that random people have, and sell cheap to the eBay flippers. No concept of it working right, wrong, or at all. 99% of bad cards come from eBay or Mercari, and a large % of cards sold there are bad.)

Most capture cards go out with a literal bang (smoke, spark, burns), not just a random odd error. I've had my fair share of burnt and fail gear, and once even started fire with a failng PSU (with a failed DIY repair). Electronics experience doesn't necessarily help much for capture cards -- it's different for certain VCRs and TBCs.

But in terms of the actual capture, the advice must remain unchanged. Better card, some form of TBC. You skip TBC to your own detriment, but I see no escape from a new capture card here. There is a % chance this is just drivers, but I just do not see it.

[Menyman]

Thank you very much
I'll try a different capture card, not much to lose here.
If it won't work well enough to my satisfaction, will take the tapes to someone who works with the correct equipment.

[traal]

Those people for the most part don't exist. LordSmurf is a notable exception.

Please budget for an external TBC even if it's just the Panasonic ES-10 or ES-15.

[Menyman]

Hi lordsmurf,

Wanted to update since you really helped me out.
Got a cheap capture card from Aliexpress, 10 bucks, just for the experiment.
Wanted to understand if the issue that I described before was caused by my old capture card (VC500) which may got bad, or is it the lack of using a TBC.

So, here's the new capture card output (link)
(Reminder - VC500 capture)

Obviously the annoying interferance is gone, which indicates it was just a capture card issue (so thanks for that )
The quality is still kinda shitty, however I didn't expect much from the new capture card.
The quality of my past VC500 captures is a lot better.

I Think that now I can purchase a better capture card, I see that there are many good reviews on the I-O Data GV-USB2.
As discussed before, believe it will be enough for my needs.