I can not figure out how to use the EQ for the tape section on the Mackie 8. I think it just sends it to the main mix where you can adjust the volume a little and that’s it. The only EQ I can see is on the first six channels.
What is the 3/4 connection, it's not obvious from Amazon images.
You can get RCA > mini, then mini > full or XLR. The XLR cables tend to be quality, so mostly be concerned with good mini adapter.
I'm not aware of RCA > XLR, but not impossible, though make sure quality is still there.
Well, I'll be... https://amzn.to/4fJN9x3
May pick one up myself!
All of my tapes are linear. This one is linear stereo and it’s really low into the noise floor. I have my audio set to linear and the hifi linear mix is off to avoid hifi hiss. EQ on a mixer would be good for this tape to get the vocals out of the noise floor.
I paid 80 for it. I have all the original packaging. The owner said he only used it once and it looks new. I could resell it for 80 or really close. So that’s an option too.
...All of my tapes are linear. This one is linear stereo and it’s really low into the noise floor. I have my audio set to linear and the hifi linear mix is off to avoid hifi hiss. EQ on a mixer would be good for this tape to get the vocals out of the noise floor.
EQing up the vocals will also EQ up the noise by the same amount. It may be the correct move to make but it will not lift the vocals above the noise which is masking it.
I doubt there is anything wrong with the mixer on that score. On basic mixers like that, EQ is usually only available for the main inputs. You would need to plug your source into those channel strip inputs which have their own EQ directly below them.
I doubt there is anything wrong with the mixer on that score. On basic mixers like that, EQ is usually only available for the main inputs. You would need to plug your source into those channel strip inputs which have their own EQ directly below them.
You’re right. LS had a good idea with the cables. Right now I just have auxiliary cables. I’m just gonna set this tape aside for a little bit and move onto another tape. This is the only tape I really want a mixer on. This is the only one I’ve seen with audio like that.
EQing up the vocals will also EQ up the noise by the same amount. It may be the correct move to make but it will not lift the vocals above the noise which is masking it.
True, we should always record with a high enough level to mask the self noise of the recorder or converter downstream of the source audio. But that's all it works for: the recorder downstream. It does nothing to reduce the noise of the source audio. These days the recorder is usually digital and generally it has a self noise way lower than the noise from even a well recorded linear VHS audio track. So put simply, there's normally no problem digitising say a linear audio track without the risk of adding extra noise as the linear audio's own noise is huge by comparison to the noise of the converter. Often the digital record level can be 10db or 20 db below maximum peak level on the audio meter and still the digital playback is excellent with no more noise than on the VHS linear track, and "no more noise than on the track" is the very best anybody can do.
So recording at an even higher level than necessary cannot reduce noise emanating from the VHS deck's audio output.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary34
You’re right. LS had a good idea with the cables. Right now I just have auxiliary cables.
Adaptors for RCA socket to 1/4"phone jack cost very little. I use them all the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary34
I’m just gonna set this tape aside for a little bit and move onto another tape. This is the only tape I really want a mixer on. This is the only one I’ve seen with audio like that.
It's impossible from here to know whether amplifying the weak audio signals off this particular tape will increase the signal to noise ratio as desired. I would need to play the tape myself to be sure.
Feel free to upload a sample audio clip here for comment (no vision necessary, just a wav file). But again, no guarantee a definitive answer can be offered. And of course do your own tests rather than just taking someone else's word for it.
Last edited by timtape; 08-16-2024 at 10:10 AM.
The following users thank timtape for this useful post:
Gary34 (08-16-2024),
lordsmurf (08-17-2024)
True, we should always record with a high enough level to mask the self noise of the recorder or converter downstream of the source audio. But that's all it works for: the recorder downstream. It does nothing to reduce the noise of the source audio.
Reading what I sent you doesn't lead me to believe that the EQ on an audio mixer only affects the self noise from the capture card. I'm not getting a mixer to cancel out the noise from my capture card. The noise from the recording is definently the issue. When I play it on my CRT it's the same way. I have to turn it up real loud to hear it and then it's way too noisy.
Quote:
Feel free to upload a sample audio clip here for comment (no vision necessary, just a wav file). But again, no guarantee a definitive answer can be offered. And of course do your own tests rather than just taking someone else's word for it.
Haw lin is just Bluejean LC-1 cables run straight from my 1980p to my capture card with no level adjustments.
T1 is with the mixer in the workflow and is turned all the way up but there are no EQs because I only have aux cables right now.
The photo is just to show the proximity of the speaker in the recording.
Quote:
Adaptors for RCA socket to 1/4"phone jack cost very little. I use them all the time.
Thanks for the recommendation. I like LS’s also but I paid quite a bit for the custom blue Jean LC-1 cables to have them out of the workflow. My other cables are pretty decent also. The LC-1s are 2 feet the other is a foot. I didn’t wanna replace them with a 6 foot cable. Those adapters well be good for me. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...dapters-2-pack
...The noise from the recording is definently the issue. When I play it on my CRT it's the same way. I have to turn it up real loud to hear it and then it's way too noisy.
What I was trying to tell you. Glad you worked it out for yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary34
Haw lin is just Bluejean LC-1 cables run straight from my 1980p to my capture card with no level adjustments.
T1 is with the mixer in the workflow and is turned all the way up but there are no EQs because I only have aux cables right now.
And as I guess you discovered the higher gain one using the mixer hasnt changed the problem. It's just overall a louder capture.
Attached is a quick effort to reduce the background noises with minimal damage to the wanted vocal. Removing background noise while preserving the wanted music/voice etc is not a walk in the park. There are limits to what even the best audio post gear and operators can accomplish.
The following users thank timtape for this useful post:
lordsmurf (08-17-2024)
Originally Posted by Gary34 View Post
...The noise from the recording is definently the issue. When I play it on my CRT it's the same way. I have to turn it up real loud to hear it and then it's way too noisy.
I had turned it up on my CRT over a week ago and figured that out. It was right after I first heard the audio.
Quote:
And as I guess you discovered the higher gain one using the mixer hasnt changed the problem. It's just overall a louder capture.
I knew that. I can only get to the main mix right now. I can’t do any kind of EQ or anything. It’s just a volume control knob until I can connect to the EQs.
Quote:
EQing up the vocals will also EQ up the noise by the same amount. It may be the correct move to make but it will not lift the vocals above the noise which is masking it.
That’s not what I am reading but I really don’t have access to the mixer until I get cables. I’ll mess with it then.
I have a 2 year old and a wife so things go a little slow with this. When I tried this project before with bad gear I had all kinds of time and it went awful. Now everything is going smooth but I have way less time. Hell of a lot less frustrating. I sure am a lot more picky now though.
Anyways I still might do LS’s idea about aux to LXR cable. I’ll get some cables and tell what I think later. Thanks for editing the WAV. Do you wanna share what you did to edit that?
It's still possible to EQ out some % of noise, and then re-up values in post-capture (Sound Forge, etc). We have a lot more leeway with loss and gains in audio, as opposed to video.
I suggest trial-and-error, and ignoring audio dogma. I've always ascribed to "frequency carving" for NR, as you can trick your brain with least-worst audio. Dogma hates my method. But remember, restoration is about making it better, not making it perfect. Dogma attempts perfection with rigid rules. Dogma was not made for nth gen VHS tapes!
Audio editing tools (e.g., Audition and others) as well as the wide range of available plugins available for them can be used to improve audio, including noise reduction (e.g., hiss, hum, crackle, and pop) and provide emphasis to voice ans well as detailed graphic equalization. The trick is to avoid excessive artifacts in the resulting output. The primary value of a mixer like the Mackie is to adjust the VCR audio output to an optimum level for recording, and for doing voice overs when editing. The equalization pots can be used to reduce noise that falls out of the desired frequency range (e.g., voice) if that works for the material.
A thing to beware of is mixing balanced and unbalanced connections, especially when playing with adapters. One can end up with phase reversal on one channel and cancellations in a mix down to mono. E.g., connecting an unbalanced TRS stereo plug to a balanced input, or a balanced mono output to a unbalanced stereo TRS input.
The following users thank dpalomaki for this useful post:
lordsmurf (08-17-2024)
A thing to beware of is mixing balanced and unbalanced connections, especially when playing with adapters. One can end up with phase reversal on one channel and cancellations in a mix down to mono. E.g., connecting an unbalanced TRS stereo plug to a balanced input, or a balanced mono output to a unbalanced stereo TRS input.
I’ll watch out for that.
I’m gonna get this DISINO Dual RCA to XLR Male Y Splitter Patch Cable, Unbalanced 2 RCA/Phono Plug to 1 XLR Splitter Duplicator Lead Y-Cable Adapter -1.6feet/50cm. It’s a good length for where I want the mixer. That mixer might come in handy. I have an electric guitar I haven’t played in forever. When I did play I just grabbed my Martin. Maybe if someone else comes over that plays we can hook up two to the amp.
The following users thank Gary34 for this useful post:
lordsmurf (08-17-2024)
Audio editing tools (e.g., Audition and others) as well as the wide range of available plugins available for them can be used to improve audio, including noise reduction (e.g., hiss, hum, crackle, and pop) and provide emphasis to voice ans well as detailed graphic equalization. The trick is to avoid excessive artifacts in the resulting output.
Yes. There are limits to what's possible, even with the latest plugins. Many if not all manufacturer demonstrations of noise reduction tools select "easy" examples where the speech is already perfectly intelligible. The sample's level of difficulty is dumbed down to flatter their product.
Whereas in Gary 34's example the speech is only intelligible some of the time. Gary 34's example is so bad that even professional forensic audio examiners with the best tools would probably struggle to extract full voice intelligibility from Gary's example.
Amateur recordings are usually the most difficult to deal with because they've often been made on the spur of the moment, in uncontrolled conditions, on mediocre gear, and without much thought or skill. So "restoring" such recordings can require the most skill, the best gear etc, and the results will often still be pretty awful.
But then there are fine amateur recordings made by people who do it not for payment but for the love of it, which is enough to motivate them to learn and improve. Sometimes that's the most important thing.
Last edited by timtape; 08-17-2024 at 09:51 PM.
The following users thank timtape for this useful post:
lordsmurf (08-17-2024)
Whereas in Gary 34's example the speech is only intelligible some of the time. Gary 34's example is so bad that even professional forensic audio examiners with the best tools would probably struggle to extract full voice intelligibility from Gary's example.
The other 30 minutes of that tape has every bit as good of quality as the sample I showed you.
Quote:
So "restoring" such recordings can require the most skill, the best gear etc, and the results will often still be pretty awful.
My TBC 3000 and 1980 are doing great on my tapes. This tape was pretty washed out looking and the proc amp helped a lot. That proc amp is more than enough for any tape I have by far. I can’t get that TBC to drop a frame even when I plug in my composite crap VCR. The 1980 is tracking everything really well. All that is running like clockwork. The bottleneck is me.
I’ll get better than I am currently with everything. I’ll improve the things I can and not worry about the things I can’t. The video quality on these is awful but this tape is older than me so the original quality was always out of my hands.
Yes. There are limits to what's possible, even with the latest plugins. Many if not all manufacturer demonstrations of noise reduction tools select "easy" examples where the speech is already perfectly intelligible. The sample's level of difficulty is dumbed down to flatter their product.
Whereas in Gary 34's example the speech is only intelligible some of the time. Gary 34's example is so bad that even professional forensic audio examiners with the best tools would probably struggle to extract full voice intelligibility from Gary's example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary34
The other 30 minutes of that tape has every bit as good of quality as the sample I showed you.
Obviously I meant there were unintelligible sections within the audio you had uploaded.
By "every bit as good"? I assume you meant every bit as bad, for any fool can tell the audio in your uploaded file is bad, not good, and yes the quality of that original recording was out of your control.
I recaptured that video with the mixer and my gain all the way up, the volume all the way up and Hi frequency all the way down. My volume on my capture card was all the down. I am using a dual RCA to 1/4 in TRS and 2 RCA to 1/4 in TS.
Real T1(2) S1+2b+3C-6col+4aud mixer maxed.wav
-- merged --
The first sample is the mixer gain, mid eq, volume, and my capture card volume maxed out. The high eq is all the way down.
The second sample is my capture card volume maxed out with the mixer completely out of the workflow.
Mixer and card maxed.wav
No mixer card max volume.wav
-- merged --
Sorry about the length of the audio uploads. That’s way more than I needed to upload for those samples.
