Go Back    Forum > Digital Video > Video Project Help > Capture, Record, Transfer

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
12-01-2024, 07:58 AM
noahmichvfs noahmichvfs is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2024
Posts: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hello,
First, thank the forum for the wealth of knowledge and experience. Thanks to the various guides and posts on this forum, I put a capture workflow together over the past month and a half, and it's been working flawlessly (up until now). I have only used it to capture my family's Hi8 tapes, but I also plan to capture some Betamax tapes from an old BetaMovie camcorder in the future. My setup is as follows:

Sony DCT-TRV350>Panasonic DMR-ES15>Visiontek TV Wonder 600 USB

I am capturing on an old Dell XPS 9000 with Windows 7. Both camcorders tested were passed through the ES15 with good S-Video cables. All captures were done with VirtualDub 1.9.11 + HuffYUV. The camcorder's TBC is was enabled.

After initially troubleshooting a few common problems, I have captured about 20 tapes with no dropped or inserted frames or noticeable defects. That was until I tried to capture one of the older tapes in our collection. I monitored the first 20 minutes of the capture, and everything was fine (demonstrated in the first attached clip). I left momentarily and returned to a blue screen, which usually indicates the tape is over. I thought there was much more to go on the tape, so I hit FF and suddenly saw the video that was supposed to be there. The second I hit play, it went back to the blue screen. I stopped the capture and noticed that just before the playback cut out, there were many horizontal white lines (dropouts, comets?) on the tape. You can see this in the second attached clip. Playback was distorted on the camcorder's LCD along with the VirtualDub preview, so I don't think this relates to my capture setup.

I have an old, beat-up CCD-TR200 that was used to record this tape, so I popped the tape in and played back the offending section. Instead of the blue screen I had previously, I was getting the jittery mess you can see in clip 4. I have been searching forums for quite a while, and so far I haven't encountered a post with a problem that looks exactly like this, My apologies if this is a common problem that has been discussed previously.

I recorded the rest of the tape using the TR200, and it cycles between extreme distortion and relatively clean playback. The is fine for most of the worst parts of the tape, but it does cut out in one section. The clean sections still have some horizontal lines but are at least useable, as seen in clip 3.

I assume this is likely a camera issue from when the tape was originally recorded or tape degradation/damage. However, one strange aspect of this issue is that the distorted areas are not in the same places when played back with each camcorder. You can see in attachments 2 and 3, the same section of video is terrible through the TRV350 but much cleaner with the TR200. I have not recorded or played back the tape multiple times to see if the playback issues happen in different spots with the same camcorder, since I am not sure if it's a good idea to keep playing the tape. This inconsistency could also be related to the Camcorder's TBC function being enabled on the TRV350.

I stopped on one of the distorted areas and popped open the dust flap to inspect the tape. It seems fine to me and looks the same as any of my other tapes. The tape curls inward slightly in the center where it's unsupported, but the other tapes I checked looked the same, and they have no playback issues. It is a Sony Hi8 Metal P120 tape with no physical signs of damage or improper storage, at least to my inexperienced eyes.

I have also fast-forwarded and rewound the tape completely, with no noticeable difference.

I'm under the impression that this is either tape degradation or a problem with the original recording. This is one of our oldest tapes, so it may have just degraded over time or been exposed to moisture or other detrimental environmental factors. To my knowledge, all of our tapes have been stored in a cool dry room, played back very sparingly, and were not usually reused.

I want to pop the tape back in my TRV350 to see if I can get better quality out of the decent portions of the tape, but my TRV350 camcorder is in immaculate condition, and I do not want to risk damaging the heads, or anything else. That might be a foolish concern, but I wanted to run this issue by the forum before going any further. I have tested a previously captured tape in the TRV350, and it plays back clean.

All of the uploaded clips have been encoded and deinterlaced with Hybrid as X264 mp4 using my usual settings. If requested, I can upload raw AVI captures, but I figured I should encode them to fit in the attachment.

Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. If this tape is junk, then so be it. It has some very important moments, though, so if you have any suggestions or knowledge to share, that would be fantastic.


Attached Files
File Type: mp4 TRV350 Clean Clip from Tape.mp4 (7.89 MB, 9 downloads)
File Type: mp4 TRV350 Start of Bad Section Before Blue Screen.mp4 (30.12 MB, 8 downloads)
File Type: mp4 TR200 Same Section Cleaner.mp4 (11.95 MB, 6 downloads)
File Type: mp4 TR200 Bad Distortion Clip.mp4 (13.40 MB, 5 downloads)
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
12-01-2024, 12:47 PM
timtape timtape is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 914
Thanked 180 Times in 166 Posts
Hello and welcome to the forum.

As your camcorder's owner's manuals will say, at the first sign of a dirty tape path, such as the horizontal streaks you encountered, play a clean recommended cleaning tape as per the accompanying instructions. Have you done that?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
12-01-2024, 09:34 PM
noahmichvfs noahmichvfs is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2024
Posts: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I ran a Sony V8-25CLH cleaning tape through the TR200 for about 10-15 seconds. I don't notice any difference in the tape playback. There are still horizontal streaks throughout the playback, even in the sections that played clean on my Digital8 camcorder. The nasty glitches on the tape are also unchanged. I tested a couple of previously captured tapes in the TR200, and it has the same white lines, though to a much lesser extent. The major glitches in sections are still specific to the one tape and completely blocked playback on the TRV350, even when Video/Hi8 playback mode was manually selected.

I also noticed that during a few scene transitions where the camera was stopped and started, the tape goes from unwatchable artifacting to normal (albeit with some horizontal lines) right at the cut. I have to assume that this means the original recording is the issue. If the tape were dirty or damaged, I would not expect to see that kind of instant improvement after a transition.

Thanks for your input. I'm assuming there won't be much I can do with the tape regarding restoration. I'm still nervous about putting it in my TRV350. It doesn't seem like it would cause issues, but I still have about 50-75 tapes to do, so I'd rather not risk it.

Quick question if anybody knows - is the V8-25CLH safe to run in a digital8 camcorder, or do you need the V8-25CLD? If I run into issues with the head on my TRV350, it would be nice to know whether I can use the CLH cleaning tape. It's the only cleaning tape I have.

Thanks for the help. If you have any further suggestions, that would be great.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
12-02-2024, 03:45 AM
timtape timtape is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 914
Thanked 180 Times in 166 Posts
Using a cleaning cassette is obviously the manufacturer's recommended method for the average camcorder user. Hence my mentioning it. But cleaning cassettes, useful as they can be, are often no substitute for a more comprehensive manual cleaning, but this work can be quite difficult and unless done skillfully and with the correct tools risks doing more harm than good to the camcorders' internals.

I suggest you look for a competent camera technician to check and report on the condition of both of your camcorders. The tech may also be able to inspect your tapes, especially the recent ones which may have contributed to the problems.

Considering the large number of tapes you plan to digitize you may also want to purchase a few extra cleaning cassettes, if you can find some, but again not as a substitute for a proper inspection of the camcorders by a competent tech.

You might also like to read the web page linked below from Specs Bros including each sub section in detail. Getting an excellent result is often more complicated than most people appreciate.

http://www.specsbros.com/archival-transfer.html




Hope this helps.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Tags
distortion, hi8, jitter, lines, noise

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
JVC VCR fast rewind issue, ideas on causes? D-fault Video Hardware Repair 6 12-12-2023 03:57 PM
VHS restoration, AviSynth optimization workflow ideas? adinbied Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 17 12-01-2020 03:36 AM
Need help finding forum theme, any ideas? harryptx Web Development, Design 0 12-27-2016 10:50 PM
Ideas for building an A/V equipment rack ? VideoTechMan General Discussion 5 07-30-2012 03:53 AM




 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:37 PM