NTSC VHS (PAL60) wrong colour fix?

[Sharky_]

Hi,

This is my first post on this forum, so hello!

Basically I am in the UK.
I have a NTSC VHS tape that I want to digitize.
I have a Sharp VCR that has NTSC playback feature (PAL60)

Originally I was capturing using Silvercrest USB Video Grabber.
The issue then was that the digital video was black and white. A common issue I have discovered.

I then got myself the Hauppauge USB Live2 version of the capture device which supports PAL60.

I can record in "colour" (sort of)

Now I have almost fixed the colour issue, except the colours are a bit messed up where reds show as blues and skin tone is green.


Can anybody help me fix this final colour issue, be it my set-up or some post video editing (any guides on correcting the colours if at all possibe?)

Thanks folks.

Sharky.

[lordsmurf]

Welcome.

It's just a consequence of having video that is neither NTSC nor PAL.

While you can sometimes capture it, it's still not compliant to anything for later viewing.

"Silvercrest USB Video Grabber" is just a rebadged Easycap (aka Easycrap).

These color issues are actually really old issues, when badly converting PAL<>NTSC. I remember seeing this often with VHS tape traders in the 90s, who were using low-end gear.

I have a Live2, PAL decks that play NTSC, etc. I need to test this out sometime. It's been a while since I played with PAL-60 (NTSC-50?)

[Sharky_]

Thanks for the reply!

Yes it would be interesting to see if you have the same colour issues.
I was pleased that I finally got some colour rather than black & white but clearly there is an issue with the reds showing as blue.

If you can try and see if it happens to you that would be handy.

I did see on older posts that people were trying to post colour correct using vegas.
Did anyone get any good results?
If so can they share some tips or settings used.
Or
If there is any other easy method to correct the colours.


I also have a Sony GX350 DVD Recorder on its way to me.
I wondered if I took a scart output from VCR into the DVD recorder, and then used my scart adapter (RCA composite - which I originally did straight from VCR to capture device) if that would correct the colours?
As a pass through device.


Again thanks for response and look forward to more help with this.

Sharky

[keaton]

It's a shot in the dark, but you could try using SwapUV in Avisynth.
The red/green will become blue/yellow, and vice-versa.
http://avisynth.nl/index.php/Swap

[latreche34]

He needs a proper capture device, You can't make chicken salad out of chicken $hit.

[Sharky_]

@latreche34 - Can you give me details on what a proper capture device is please?

[timtape]

As said in the other thread it's an NTSC tape. I'd play it in an NTSC deck or a true multi standard play back deck.

[Sharky_]

But that is not the 'capture device' - thats the source.

My confusion comes when the 'source' that I use when connected directly to my JVC TV, plays the source correctly, full colour and audio.
When that same source is sent to a capture device it has the issues.

I am not sure why whatever it is in the TV that can handle the source has never been incorporated into a capture device correctly. Thats what I find frustrating.

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I believe some people have had success playing about with the colours in video editing software, so any guides on that would help.
I have never used Avisynth and it seems all about scripts and stuff thats way over my head.


On a final note for now, the LG VCR I have seems to output the colours correctly (via Hauppauge USB Live2) but the image rolls/flickers about!

So I am kinda making progress in a way... haha

Maybe I will try feeding one VCR output into the other (as a pass thru) and then to capture device (USB Live2) and see what that produces!

Thanks for your replies! Keep them coming :-)

[timtape]

I understand what you're saying but just because the NTSC tape in your PAL VCR looks good on a TV doesnt guarantee it will rerecord well. That's my understanding anyway. The modern TV may be adapting to the signal in ways which a capture card cant. I'd check the owner's manual of the VCR whether the NTSC tape will rerecord as well as play on a modern TV.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharky_

I believe some people have had success playing about with the colours in video editing software

You can't un-ring that bell. The loss cannot be reversed. I have experience with the exact issues you're seeing, having first seen it in the 90s. You can reverse color channels (with Avisynth), but the chroma is still fundamentally altered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

I understand what you're saying but just because the NTSC tape in your PAL VCR looks good on a TV doesnt guarantee it will rerecord well. That's my understanding anyway. The modern TV may be adapting to the signal in ways which a capture card cant. I'd check the owner's manual of the VCR whether the NTSC tape will rerecord as well as play on a modern TV.

Correct.

[latreche34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharky_

@latreche34 - Can you give me details on what a proper capture device is please?

Assuming you can't get a true NTSC VCR, a proper capture device is a device that can capture PAL60 properly.

[Sharky_]

Thanks.
Any capture devices you can recommend that properly handle PAL60 ?

-- merged --

Just as a follow up...

I have been doing some experimentation and these are the conclusions.

LG BD200I VCR (with NTSC playback capability) > Scart to RCA OUT
> RCA in to Sony RDR-GX350 DVD Recorder via front panel (Line 2) > RCA out (rear) to TV

The above set up worked pretty well.
The PAL60 output from the VCR was handled correctly by the GX350 (stable picture and seemingly correct colours)

The GX350 had to be switched to the NTSC option in the menu or it comes up with a message on screen.

Recorded fine onto a DVD+R and then I could transfer that from the disk on my PC the usual way to get me an MP4 version.

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I had no luck getting any OLD WinTV PCI cards to work AT ALL (not detected in Device Manager even after using different slots)

- The Hauppauge USB LIVE2 almost got there wit hteh PAL60 but the image was rolling and unstable. I think this device can get round Macrovision, but doesn't get on well with PAL60.

- The Diamond USB VC500 worked and gave a stable image BUT the colours were incorrect (missing a chroma or something)

- I also tried a Hauppauge Rocket PVR and that worked well but was sensitive to glitches in the VHS playback, causing intermittent loss of signal message (blue screen) -but still it worked.

- I also tried a Hauppauge HD PVR unit 49001 LF via RCA and that also worked. It was just tricky to get the device to work in Windows 10 (kept saying device no longer connected etc. I think in the end I installed the WinTV10 after using the program to remove all Hauppauge drivers etc and it worked).
Well, when I got it working, it worked just as well as the Sony RDR-GX350 DVD recorder.

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So I just thought I would share that with this community to help anyone else who may be based in the UK or with a NTSC tape in a PAL area.

I hope it is of some use.

Thanks again for all your help folks!