TvOne TBC-531R opinions?

[radiokom]

Hello!

I got TvOne TBC CTB-531R for cheap (not received yet), and like to know is there any opinions about that?

Perhaps it is similar to TBC-530 (looks the same from outside), but no info about this particular model and even on 530.

I believe it has Cypress chip (have no idea good or bad). Design is well, with 2 inputs, audio in/out, including component out (however it is not needed for digitization), so if chip is OK it would be nice device. If not - not a big mess, did not cost arm and leg .

P.S. I found (it is really not a scientific solution, but I simply tried because I was curious "what happens if") black AVTool AVT-8710 works if between that and VCR is Panasonic WJ-AVE5 mixer with frame synchronizer. Maybe that is a source of black AVT-8710 problems?

[lordsmurf]

Hello.

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

Hello!
I got TvOne TBC CTB-531R for cheap (not received yet), and like to know is there any opinions about that?
Perhaps it is similar to TBC-530 (looks the same from outside), but no info about this particular model and even on 530.

Hopefully this isn't one of the molded water-damaged units that Indians keep trying to sell on eBay. I don't know what the hell those people are thinking. It's obvious they're just looking for suckers to buy their worthless e-waste.

The internals of this TBC model vary highly, with most being from the "black"(flawed,bad) generation.

Quote:

I believe it has Cypress chip (have no idea good or bad).

Cypress isn't a chip, but a manufacturer. (Actually, yes, a chip company named Cypress exists, but that's a different Cypress.)

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including component out (however it is not needed for digitization),

That's not component. It's composite (yellow "RCA" cable), aka luma+chroma on same carrier wire.

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so if chip is OK it would be nice device.

TBCs are not a single chip.

Quote:

P.S. I found (it is really not a scientific solution, but I simply tried because I was curious "what happens if") black AVTool AVT-8710 works if between that and VCR is Panasonic WJ-AVE5 mixer with frame synchronizer. Maybe that is a source of black AVT-8710 problems?

The black(bad) units will usually throw errors with those mixers.

[radiokom]

Quote:

"Hopefully this isn't one of the molded water-damaged units that Indians keep trying to sell on eBay. I don't know what the hell those people are thinking. It's obvious they're just looking for suckers to buy their worthless e-waste."
"That's not component. It's composite (yellow "RCA" cable), aka luma+chroma on same carrier wire."

No, it is from Europe, dry part

But one of the outputs is component. It has 2 inputs - composite and s-video and 3 outputs - s-video, composite and component.

Layout is the same as this 530.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

The black(bad) units will usually throw errors with those mixers.

Maybe, but what I noticed on this particular black unit, is not frame freezing or other errors if compared with green, but it hang on especially if s-video ports are used. After restart it continues to work until next hang on. With that mixer between vcr and black unit this problem disappeared. Of course it is not solution, I simply tried

[lordsmurf]

That mixer digitizes/"bakes in" errors, and has clean(ish) output. This is why it's not a suggested unit. It's not a TBC, but functions in a way that "breaks" a TBC in a conversion workflow. This is why proc amps (mixers, detailers, etc) should come after line/frame TBC, not before.

As an aside, for certain "clever" folks reading, this situation differs from the ES10/15, which is pure line and non-TBC frame sync. The output is still subjected to frame timing correction, unlike here.

Not all devices act the same. Not all devices are good in workflows.

It's always fun to try things, and to observe.

... just resist the urge to come to hasty (and often wrong) conclusions. Not saying you did this, but some people certainly do.

FYI, it's easy to see Cypress performance differences in early-gen "green" and late-gen "black". The real puzzlers are the mid-gen units, that time between fully good and fully flawed chips. Those can be nice workable units, when located. Can.

[radiokom]

Thanks lordsmurf!

Yes, I did not made any conclusions. Sometimes it is fun simply to try something

And analyze frame by frame.

But the worst thing is that when something turns out well, you have no idea why

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

FYI, it's easy to see Cypress performance differences in early-gen "green" and late-gen "black". The real puzzlers are the mid-gen units, that time between fully good and fully flawed chips. Those can be nice workable units, when located. Can.

Are there any known firmware numbers for good and bad devices? For example, my black has V2.2. (2218-0E22) sticker on chip, green has no sticker at all. Just curious.

[lordsmurf]

No, not that easy.

- 10-15 years ago, I'd have said "I wish it were that easy".
- But now, it's somewhat moot anyway. Even the good green/"green" models have various failures, so it's no longer a determining factor, in terms of a "safe buy".

V2.2. (2218-0E22) doesn't necessarily mean what you think it means. I don't 100% know what it means either. For example, you'll see bad/flawed/black units with V1.x chips, and good green/"green" units with V2.x chips. 2218-0E22 can be found on both mid-gen (okay to passable) and late-gen (not good). It gets even messier when you take shell swapping into account.

Finding a good (or "good enough"/B+/mid-gen) is really about a summary conclusion from a battery of tests and observations.

This is why buying a Cypress "in the wild", without already knowing deeply about Cypress (aka NOT newbies!), is a terrible idea. Sometimes, I can identify bad units from site alone (mostly black AVT-8710s), sometimes not at all (the model you're looking at). But when you know the production sizes (which I gleamed from now-gone Tvone staff and former suppliers), you'll understand the odds of crap outweigh good.

Aside: Sometimes people whine/cry that only I seemingly know this info (especially certain RF kiddies), but it's because I started investigating it decades ago. It's not something you can Google, not all info is online. And it seems nobody else ever bothered to learn about these consumer analog formats TBCs as I have. Fun fact: For every "good" TBC that I have in the marketplace, I'll have at least 1 bad unit that I cannot use or sell -- and that's with me being careful, selective. The attic is a gear pick-n-pull and graveyard, and the local metal/e-waste recycler knows me.

[radiokom]

Thanks!

Yes I understand, I have audio restoration studio. When in beginning of 2000s studios sold their Studer A80s for cheap I bought them from all Europe including EMI Electrola in Holland (2 A80QC for cassette tapes, picked up personally), BBC in UK, etc. so now I have fully restored 3 A80RC, 1A80R, A820, Otari MTR-15 last I bought new from Otari GmbH in Germany right before closing and a lot of spares. I can tell many about phono cartridges, turntables (have Nakamichi Dragon-CT with Eminent Technology 2.5arm, Nakamichi TX-1000, ELP laser and so on). Video is just a side occupation. I have 3 fully restored Panasonic NV-FS1 (there was a time when it was possible to buy them in new condition, but with dead PS). What I like in this first Panasonic S-VHS along built quality is manual tracking by potentiometer - I really hate those +- knobs when you never know in which position you are And some professional Panasonic, but I could not say there are benefits for digitization. Yes, is has no built in line TBC, but otherwise it is excellent. Many things are trial and error method. For example Blackmagic capture cards - Intensity Shuttle (at least USB version) has to be avoided because of dramatic audio out of sync. Intensity Pro depends - there are particular cards what works well, but the same model can be defective (at least for analog capture). Blackmagic has no support at all - their philosophy is "our devices are cheap if it does not work, buy another or return to dealer). BM dealer is my friend, so I have no problems to return defective card. But otherwise dealer can claim "but it works OK, where you see a problem?". And so on and on and on...... I believe the same with TBC. Trial and error method is only possible. And, as I see, your explanations are based on real knowleage, there are real lack of specialists.