Good capture card/setup for my video synth, glitch art?

[jencheck]

Hello everybody I am new to this forum and this field in general so I apologize if I did something incorrectly regarding reaching out for this but I need help. I currently have a setup so I can make analog/glitch art that goes as follows

macbook -> hdmi to av -> my video synth -> av to hdmi -> usb capture card back into my macbook

essentially so i could capture my macbook through analog and glitch whatever i want.

it works fine. fine being subjective, without using my synth it does have clean signal which is okay, but when I start to use my synth the capture card starts to go a bit crazy and will drop if the effect is too heavy. Which I am not very surprised by being the capture card was cheap. So with some research (clearly not enough) I decided to switch my setup to my windows pc, and purchase the blackmagic intensity pro pcie per recommendation. But with more research I've found out that it cannot handle the unstable signal, and I would have to put a TBC before the intensity pro to fix it. However I do not have the money at all for that, and I've since canceled the order. I just want to capture the video synths signal thats distorting my footage of my pc but i'm overwhelmed. If anyone has any recommendations for me or advice I would greatly appreciate it.

[aramkolt]

I've seen this video before about glitch art, but have not messed with it myself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so7Mk16wGrA

The one TBC that they mention being a suitable and seems pretty inexpensive and plentiful on eBay would be the Panasonic WJ-AVE5. I'm not sure that it'll be stable enough for the Blackmagic capture card, but can't hurt to try before updating the capture card. The trick also is that there aren't nearly as many modern Mac capture card options to choose from.

You may also want to make sure your HDMI to analog converter is high quality if you want the best result, the cheap ones that are $10 probably aren't the best, but they'd work for a starter setup.

[lordsmurf]

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Originally Posted by jencheck

Hello everybody I am new to this forum and this field in general

Welcome.

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I currently have a setup so I can make analog/glitch art that goes as follows
macbook -> hdmi to av -> my video synth -> av to hdmi -> usb capture card back into my macbook
essentially so i could capture my macbook through analog and glitch whatever i want.

Mac tends to be a very video-unfriendly OS.

"av to hdmi" -- Are you trying to use a cheap Chinese HDMI adapter? Those were made for connecting DVD players and old video game consoles to modern TVs. Those were never intended for capture situations, and simply do not work well (or at all).

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it works fine. fine being subjective, without using my synth it does have clean signal which is okay, but when I start to use my synth the capture card starts to go a bit crazy and will drop if the effect is too heavy. Which I am not very surprised by being the capture card was cheap. So with some research (clearly not enough) I decided to switch my setup to my windows pc,

Your experience was as expected, and swapping to Windows was good. However...

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and purchase the blackmagic intensity pro pcie per recommendation.

Blackmagic are known-bad cards for anything other than pure HD ingest. No SD (VHS, etc), no glitch art.

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But with more research I've found out that it cannot handle the unstable signal, and I would have to put a TBC before the intensity pro to fix it.

Frame TBCs will always be needed before capturing glitch art, as that is unstable video (on purpose).

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However I do not have the money at all for that, and I've since canceled the order.
I just want to capture the video synths signal thats distorting my footage of my pc but i'm overwhelmed. If anyone has any recommendations for me or advice I would greatly appreciate it.

All hobbies have expenses, and TBCs are a required expense for quality glitch art. It's really about spending priorities. If it's not worth buying proper gear, it's probably not worth doing at all. Or save up funds, and revisit when funds permit. (Some people rankle at this advice, but it's just reality, and I'm a realist.)

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Originally Posted by aramkolt

The one TBC that they mention being a suitable and seems pretty inexpensive and plentiful on eBay would be the Panasonic WJ-AVE5. I'm not sure that it'll be stable enough for the Blackmagic capture card,

WJ-AVE5 is not a TBC. It's mixer that contains a very weak line TBC, and zero frame TBC. It will do nothing helpful/useful in this scenario.

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but can't hurt to try

I truly hate this sort of advice. It encourages stubbornness, gives an excuse to ignore good advice. And thus waste time and money. The goal is to help others with good advice, not give in to their false preconceived ideas.

As that Youtuber properly points out, the Panasonic mixers are overall lousy at best, non-functional at worse.

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before updating the capture card.

A resilient card will matter here, which is exactly why I have certain Pinnacles in the marketplace.

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You may also want to make sure your HDMI to analog converter is high quality if you want the best result, the cheap ones that are $10 probably aren't the best, but they'd work for a starter setup.

Realize that "quality" conversion will use something like Extron, Cypress, DataVideo -- not something under $50 on Amazon/eBay. That stuff is all Chinese junk, and is a meat grinder to both image and signal quality. Everything from bad levels to bake-in to unstable HDMI signal output..

[aramkolt]

OP makes it pretty clear that budget is limited, so using something that is already known to work and inexpensive like the WJ-AVE5 for the purposes of glitch art by glitch artists seems reasonable to try in that situation, but that's just my opinion, not advice. Just saying what I'd do in that situation and why.

Not saying the AVE5 is suitable for analog video capture where you want to preserve how the original signal looked (because I haven't tested one). Some glitch artists even prefer TBCs that glitch the signal even more. Ultimately, you can't really know how a piece of hardware will work in a chain without trying it. I am pretty sure that the most sought after glitch-art TBCs are completely different than those sought for analog video preservation from what I've read.

Suggesting trying something new in the chain before replacing the whole chain would only apply if you planned to buy that device anyway for the next chain. The idea being that the whole chain might not need replacing, so there's no harm in replacing one piece at a time.

[lordsmurf]

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I've seen this video before about glitch art, but have not messed with it myself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so7Mk16wGrA

I just re-watched this video. It's pretty good, not bad.

The main issue is that he lumps Sima in with Panasonic and Roland, and that's a problem. Panasonic's line TBC is weak (pre-ES10 type), and Roland doesn't really have a TBC here.

But here's a fun fact: Sima was essentially** the Cypress consumer brand. These exact mixers contain a weak frame TBC, a cousin/relative to the green AVT-8710 (and similar Cypress). While not adequate for digitizing videotapes, it can act decently for this purpose, though actual TBCs work far better (TBC-1000, green AVT-8710, and similar).

(**Technically: Sima was a separate North American company, that used or rebadged Cypress products, so a typical complex international corporate structure. Essentially low-end consumer Cypress gear, with some EOL pricier items before Sima went bust, discontinued.)

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Originally Posted by aramkolt

using something that is already known to work and inexpensive like the WJ-AVE5

But that exact unit line is known not to work well, or at all.

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Some glitch artists even prefer TBCs that glitch the signal even more.

This is very true, but it's still not this unit that provides desired analog noise patterning.

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Ultimately, you can't really know how a piece of hardware will work in a chain without trying it.

That's just not true. Many workflows have known knowns. This Panasonic mixer are such devices.

The ingest sources was actually never mentioned by this OP, but the weak line-only AVE5, into a drop-happy Blackmagic, is a recipe for disaster. Glitch art needs resiliency, and only certain TBCs and capture cards offer it.

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I am pretty sure that the most sought after glitch-art TBCs are completely different than those sought for analog video preservation from what I've read.

Some overlap.