Need to buy a Pro VHS recorder, suggestions?

[el1ero]

Hello people, I'm trying to learn around from the Pro's like you guys. At the moment, I have to buy a Pro VHS Recorder, what you think of this one on the link? description are ok? should I be good buying it or it might be more of a lemon? Overall what can you suggest me? Can I get something better?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JVC-BR-S800U...item4842ce7680

Thanks

[lordsmurf]

Hi el1ero, welcome to the site.

I'm always wary of descriptions like this:

Quote:

UP FOR SALE IS A JVC BR-S800U PROFESSIONAL S VIDEO CASSETTE RECORDER. PURCHASED THIS ITEM AT A SCHOOL SURPLUS. ITEM SEEMS TO BE IN GOOD COSMETIC CONDITION WITH VERY FEW SCRATCHES AND SCUFFS DUE FROM USAGE AND REMOVAL. ITEM HAS BEEN TESTED AND WORKS AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE PICTURES. (T.V. IS NOT INCLUDED IN SALE, ITS JUST TO SHOW THAT THE VCR IS IN WORKING CONDITION) THE ONLY TEST DONE WAS BY INSERTING A REGULAR VHS TAPE INTO CASSETTE RECORDER. ITEM REWINDS AND FORWARDS WITH NO PROBLEM. I DO NOT HAVE ANY RECORDING TAPES TO TEST OUT THE RECORDING FEATURES.THEREFORE, ITEM IS BEING SOLD AS IS. ALSO DUE TO HAVING MORE THAN 1 YOU MAY NOT RECEIVE THE EXACT SAME ONE IN PICTURES BUT WILL RECEIVE ONE AS DESCRIBED AND IN WORKING CONDITION.

JVC BR-S800U PROFESSIONAL S VIDEO CASSETTE RECORDER
ITEM HAS BEEN TESTED AND WORKS
ITEM COMES HOW YOU SEE IN THE PICTURES SO LOOK CAREFULLY
ITEM DOES COME WITH POWER CORD
MANUAL, WARRANTY AND OTHER CORDS ARE NOT INCLUDED
ITEM IS BEING SOLD AS IS

IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS PLEASE ASK BEFORE PURCHASE. ALSO CHECK OUT MY STORE FOR OTHER GREAT OFFERS. THANKS

IN ADDITION TO HAVING AN OBVIOUSLY BROKEN CAPS LOCK KEY ...

This person is using weasel words and weasel descriptions.
digitalFAQ members NJRoadfan and Moxiecat could easily contribute horror stores to this thread.

What this person is stating is:
1. "It power on, so it works!"
2. "I saw something on screen when I jammed an old tape in it, so it works!"
3. "I didn't test any of the buttons and doodads because I don't know how it works!"
4. "I took pictures of the pretty one. I'll send you the VCR that looks like it was run over by a truck."

Ridiculous.

Seriously ... run.
Unless you're capable of repairing pro VCRs yourself, you'll most likely get something with damaged heads, malfunctioning components, etc.

This person's idea of a test isn't the same as what I would do when testing a VCR thoroughly. Not even close.

In addition to all of that...

This isn't even a good general use VCR. These are: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...ing-guide.html
Find something from that list instead.

[el1ero]

Many thanks, you probably safe me from getting pownd. Couple of questions... Of that list which one would you recommend, like top 5 or so? Do you know any good store of this equipment on ebay? or have you checked any VHS recorder on ebay lately, that should be a good to get?

Thanks again

[moxiecat]

This is the worst part of that listing, IMO: "No returns or exchanges"

I am also wary of many of the things LordSmurf pointed out as well, but some of that would be OK if you had a seller who accepted returns. That would let you try out the VCR and return it if you weren't satisfied. I understand why sellers don't want returns (there are buyers who can shaft them) but that's always a red flag for me as a buyer anyway.

And he has more than one of this unit, but can't take the time to take photos of the exact unit...even though he took over 10 photos of A unit? How many units did he obtain? (Now maybe he got 10 units or so in this school sale...that might be a different thing.)

I don't know...if this were a recommended unit, that would be one thing, but it's not, so don't waste your time is my advice.

I would look for a JVC unit from the HR-S9000 line, or a Panasonic AG-1980 to gets started with. Just keep an eye on eBay. Sometimes people will sell used units. There is no good "store" that I know of. There's Southern Advantage for AG-1980s, but everything there is horribly overpriced. Just read an ad carefully, look at the seller's feedback, see if they accept returns, how many photos are posted, if the ad seems like it was written by a human being (ideally, someone who comes off as knowing even a little about the VCR he's selling).

[NJRoadfan]

Its actually a plus that the seller shows the machine outputting video, but its a moot point if the pictured VCR is not the one you will be receiving. The BR-S800 also doesn't have any desirable features like a TBC or noise reduction built in. Its a pretty basic editing VTR and its likely beat after being in a school all these years. Schools aren't known for doing routine maintenance outlined in the service manuals on their equipment either. Another thing missing from most pro VTR ebay listings is the output of the hours meter. Almost all pro VTRs have a built in "odometer" of sorts that tell you hours of use. Some machines give even more details and tell you how many times tapes have been threaded or the number of hours on the drum.

Remember, big professional VTRs were designed to do editing of tapes, playback quality wasn't a priority in many cases. Playback is almost always limited to SP speed and the tape transports can be a bit harsh on standard T-120 tapes (bad for old brittle tapes). Pro users usually use thicker T-60 Pro/Industrial grade tapes for editing since they are designed to take a beating.

[el1ero]

Thanks for all of those advices, I'm taking notes. This is another JVC, descriptions might look a bit better, what you think?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JVC-BR-S622U...08971065250518

I need a PRO VHS Recorder, that Panasonic AG-1980 won't give me the features of manipulating audio.

I need one rush, seriously

[NJRoadfan]

What audio features do you need? The AG-1980 has dedicated line in/out for the linear track, and can switch between the hi-fi and linear tracks on playback, or even blend the two. The only thing the true pro decks have is dual linear audio tracks, but unless the tape you are working with has them, it isn't much use for restoration work. Perhaps you can detail what your project needs are?

[el1ero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJRoadfan

What audio features do you need? The AG-1980 has dedicated line in/out for the linear track, and can switch between the hi-fi and linear tracks on playback, or even blend the two. The only thing the true pro decks have is dual linear audio tracks, but unless the tape you are working with has them, it isn't much use for restoration work. Perhaps you can detail what your project needs are?

Mainly, I need to restore the audio of the recordings, while transferring them to the computer with pinnacle. I will also need to restore image quality but for that I will have to make another thread I guess..

[moxiecat]

You can improve video quality with a respected VCR and devices such as a time-base corrector and proc amp. Of course you can work with video quality in software as well, but you'll get better results right off the bat if you invest in a good VCR and hardware chain.

See this thread at VideoHelp for more information, particularly regarding Proc Amp/Detailer discussion:
http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/1...rs-and-Filters

And see the VH restoration forum as a whole for great threads on TBCs and VCRs. In addition to DigitalFAQ, I learned a ton about video restoration by reading the various posts in this forum:
http://forum.videohelp.com/forums/41-Restoration

However, as far as restoring audio goes, you are more or less limited to improving audio within software, AFTER your footage is digitized. The same "real time" analog processors just do not exist for audio improvement (such as suppressing hiss from a linear track).

Please believe us--you are going to be best served by tracking down a VCR from the list LordSmurf gave you and starting with that.

[el1ero]

This guy have 2 JVC up on sale, different prices, maybe the same one?.....http://oksellitnow.com/?id=807122&pa...ds=21166,21168,

[el1ero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moxiecat

You can improve video quality with a respected VCR and devices such as a time-base corrector and proc amp. Of course you can work with video quality in software as well, but you'll get better results right off the bat if you invest in a good VCR and hardware chain.

See this thread at VideoHelp for more information, particularly regarding Proc Amp/Detailer discussion:
http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/1...rs-and-Filters

And see the VH restoration forum as a whole for great threads on TBCs and VCRs. In addition to DigitalFAQ, I learned a ton about video restoration by reading the various posts in this forum:
http://forum.videohelp.com/forums/41-Restoration

However, as far as restoring audio goes, you are more or less limited to improving audio within software, AFTER your footage is digitized. The same "real time" analog processors just do not exist for audio improvement (such as suppressing hiss from a linear track).

Please believe us--you are going to be best served by tracking down a VCR from the list LordSmurf gave you and starting with that.

moxiecat for audio improvement what your recommend then?

[moxiecat]

I work primarily in Soundtrack on a Mac when I need to tweak audio, so I don't think I'll be much help to you.

Check out LordSmurf's discussion of audio software, that should point you in the right direction:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/vid...tore-audio.htm

I believe SoundForge and Audacity are two programs that I have heard mentioned favorably in the past.

[lordsmurf]

The VCR is not the proper tool to restore audio -- the VCR is for image quality only.
At most, the VCR will let you switch between HiFi and linear tracks. Or even pick a single channel of the HiFi (rarely needed).

There's two things that are done to correct audio: hardware (mixer board) and software (NLE for audio).

The Behringer Xenyx mixers are good low-cost boards with on-board 3-channel EQ. Two models available easily:
- 8 channel model: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B000J5XS3C
- 5 channel model: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B000J5UEGQ

I'd choose the 8-channel version. You'll need crossover cables, from stereo (2.5mm) to RCA. Those are readily available at Amazon.com, some Best Buy music locations, and most music/guitar stores.

With the mixer, you can control gain (loudness) and some basic EQ needs.

The rest is all handled in software, using something like Sound Forge with Audacity (sometimes with Goldwave). There's also far more complex and costly software available, but most VHS projects can easily be taken care of by simply using SoundForge alone, or Sound Forge with Audacity. Some of the methods are already documented on the site, but all are due for massive guide updates and expansions, as time allows -- working on that now (Nov-Feb timeline).

The Restoration subforum at Videohelp is one that I founded back in 2005. These days, it's best to find me here -- not there.

A workflow looks like this:
Video: VCR > TBC > optional processors (proc amp, detailer, NR box, etc) > digital converter/recorder
Audio: VCR > mixer > digital converter/recorder (or computer Line In audio card, for some setups)

Once converted, both audio and video can be later processed in software, to varying degrees.

[lordsmurf]

You need to pay close attention to auction text.

The BR-S800 is likely an NTSC model.
The BR-S622 is listed as PAL.

Quote:

Television System: PAL
Video Recording System: PAL-type colour signal/PAL-type Y/C signal

Buy what you need.
Understand that NTSC (North America, Japan) is not the same as PAL (Europe, Australia, China, most of the rest of the world).

[el1ero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Understand that NTSC (North America, Japan) is not the same as PAL (Europe, Australia, China, most of the rest of the world).

Oh then I need a NTSC one, even thou I love Chinese food.

[el1ero]

For the VCR, should this one work?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-Mo...item3a6c8fbc99

[lordsmurf]

The 7750 is not on the list, so no.
That's not going to play homemade video tapes (or retail video tapes) with good quality needed for digital capturing.

[el1ero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

The 7750 is not on the list, so no.
That's not going to play homemade video tapes (or retail video tapes) with good quality needed for digital capturing.

lordsmurf, my bad. Hope not bothering just too much. Can't find any good of the list on ebay... but found a Sony one: SONY SLV-R1000 S-VHS EDITING VCR. What you think?

[el1ero]

The only one was this and not sure about the descriptions... not tested...

[el1ero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by el1ero

The only one was this and not sure about the descriptions... not tested...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-AG...item2c60c5af91