DV vs. lossless - huge quality difference?

[premiumcapture]

I've read that DV video is lossy and the colorspace is not as rich as lossless video (4:2:0 vs. 4:2:2+). Is there a huge noticeable difference in quality?

[lordsmurf]

NTSC is 4:1:1, and not good.
PAL is 4:2:0, like DVD, and looks fine.

The 4:1:1 quality loss is noticeable, especially on modern large HDTVs. Understand that DV was invented during the Pentium III era (almost 20 years ago!), and was compressed so much because the signal couldn't keep up with hardware of the era. It's not that much better than analog formats of the time. It's just that analog and digital have different flaws. The color of S-VHS and Betacam was much better, but DV had better clarity. DV was never intended for video conversion -- only shooting. An already-lossy VHS tape had lossyness compounded by DV.

4:1:1 should have never been used, as it quarters color quality. 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 half it. (Instead of quartering color, 4:2:0 halves the half in an interval. Neither is ideal, but this method is better.)

So it all depends on where you are!

USA DV = poo
Europe DV = alright

[premiumcapture]

The reason I ask is I am planning on sending a selection of videos to videoconversionexperts.com. I've been in contact with the owner (who is very responsive and helpful btw, their work samples on youtube also seem pretty good) and he says that they capture with DV at 4:2:0. All my tapes are NTSC. Is it possible he is simply using a different codec?

[kpmedia]

No. DV is DV, and there's no away around the weaknesses of DV. Codecs don't matter.

videoconversionexperts.com is actually a site I'd come across in December, and planned to write about here, in our myths section.

For you see, most of this image...

videoconversionexperts-fake.jpg

...is BS.

It's my plan to debunk it in detail. I came across 4-5 sites in December, all of them pedding fake images, etc, and basically lying to would-be customers. That "restoration" is a butcher job, covered in chroma artifacts, oversharpening halos, and hotspots from poor exposure. I would never, ever, return work like that! That's horrible!

The whole "frame-by-frame" thing is also BS -- tapes don't have frames! (It's NOT film!)

You must be logged in to view this content; either login or register for the forum. The attached screen shots, before/after images, photos and graphics are created/posted for the benefit of site members. And you are invited to join our digital media community.

Why not send the videos here? You realize that we also offer video conversion -- not just restoration? The consumer formats -- VHS, S-VHS, 8mm, Hi8, DV, MicroMV. If you want high quality files to edit, we can give you Huffyuv lossless AVI on hard drive. That's the ideal solution. If you need it to take less space, there are options (sub-broadcast MPEG-2, for example). And our prices are lower than their top "pro" service -- go figure.

Even if you don't send it to us, send it somewhere else. Because that site is full of crap.

[premiumcapture]

Please see PM