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  #1  
08-16-2014, 08:37 AM
HDClown HDClown is offline
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Shopping through eBay it looks like you can get every top recommended S-VHS deck listed in the VCR buying guide, if you're willing to pay up to $400.

So, assuming one is willing to pay that much, what's the best deck to acquire?

Going a step further, would the best deck recommended change based on the source material? I have a mix:
  1. Original VHS in SP mode
  2. Original VHS in LP mode
  3. VHS in LP or EP that was mastered from original VHS in SP
  4. Original VHS-C (still on VHS-C tape, and I have a VHS-C -> VHS chassis to use)
  5. VHS that was mastered from VHS-C in SP and LP modes
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  #2  
08-16-2014, 10:11 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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VHS/VHS-C recorded in LP and EP will look best on a Panasonic AG-1980. JVC players never made much of an effort to enhance EP mode. If you're dealing with tapes that were duped to another tape, you're dealing with some of the worst material out there. Good luck.

Decent SVHS Panasonics from the old PV-S4670/S4672 series (1996 or so) in good shape are also good players, predecessors to the AG series. Now and then you find some on auction sights. Other than prosumer players, anything made after 1999 is junk. One exception would be the Panny PV-8664, great for EP tapes but you'll need to do some denoising. Non-TBC players from any brand will require a line-level tbc of some kind (note that line-level and frame-level tbc's are two different things). By 2002 standard VCR's were total disasters. A couple of Mitsubishi's from the late 90's are sometimes recommended, bit I don't recall the one or two specific models that were worth looking for. Difficult to find, anyway. The best JVC that might handle slow-speed tapes decently would be the pre-2000 "9800" tbc series. Most of them are pretty well burned out by now.
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  #3  
08-16-2014, 11:56 AM
premiumcapture premiumcapture is offline
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I own a 9600 and two 7800s, and will say that while the best picture quality I have seen on a VCR has come from the 9600, it will not track EP very well. The 7800s, on the other hand, have so far done a fantastic job. I would look for one of those on eBay. I currently have two for sale on the sales board for less than that, but I would agree with Sanlyn that the AG 1980s generally provide the best, most consistent tracking.

Because the 1980 is prone to capacitor failure over time, eBay sales can be pretty inconsistent with quality. If you decide to go down that route, I would talk to Tom Grant at tgrantphoto.com. He refurbishes all his machines, and I can tell you from experience that buying a refurbished 1980 for $330 is better than gambling on eBay. Return shipping on a VCR can be $20-$30, so its really not worth trial and error unless you are going to fix it yourself.
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  #4  
08-16-2014, 12:13 PM
volksjager volksjager is offline
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the absolute best deck if money if no object is the JVC SR-W5U and SR-W7U
i have owned several of these machine and they are amazing
however they are super delicate and if they break are hard to get repaired because of lack of parts.

a fully serviced AG-1980 from Tgrantphoto is a good way to go
dont buy an AG-1980 from ebay - most are trash
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  #5  
08-18-2014, 09:06 AM
HDClown HDClown is offline
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If I didn't have any LP/EP tapes (I'm going to have to go back through and look through the material), would a JVC 9600/9800/9900 be better than the Panasonic AG-1980?
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  #6  
08-18-2014, 12:03 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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IMO, generally no. But it depends on the tape. Home made tapes don't fare as well in JVC machines, and JVC can be tricky to track old or damaged tapes. The 9800 is probably the most stable of the JVC's mentioned. JVC good for clean retail issues, Panny for noisy old stuff. Therefore I'd suggest that you do what most advanced people do who own a lot of varied tapes: get the Panny and get the JVC both. In either case, finding one of either that's in top shape won't be so easy. Expect higher prices for well-maintained or rebuilt models. Either would require that you stay in contact with a good maintenance outfit. Note that parts support for all these players ended years ago. Don't trust your luck to a single machine. If you can't find a 9xxx JVC in decent shape, look for refurbished JVC SR-V101U, which is a later build of the 7900. A few shops still work on the 101 and the AG-1980.

Last edited by sanlyn; 08-18-2014 at 12:52 PM.
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  #7  
08-18-2014, 12:20 PM
volksjager volksjager is offline
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the sr-v101 is about the worst of the TBC equiped JVC's
very cheaply made and uses a different cheaper mech
it bears nothing in common with a 7600 (the 7600 has a DD and is basically a 2mb 9600)
the 7800 7900 and sr-V10 are decent and basically the same deck
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  #8  
08-18-2014, 01:01 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volksjager View Post
the sr-v101 is about the worst of the TBC equiped JVC's
very cheaply made and uses a different cheaper mech
it bears nothing in common with a 7600 (the 7600 has a DD and is basically a 2mb 9600)
the 7800 7900 and sr-V10 are decent and basically the same deck
Sorry, I meant to type 7900, not 7600. I corrected my post. Not familiar with the 7800, so I didn't mention it.

By "later build" I didn't mean "the same thing". Yes, the 101 is lighter stuff. I think I'd rather have a 101 that's been completely rebuilt by somebody like TGrant than a burned-out unit of the better models that's been run to the ground and sold on eBay by a vendor that doesn't know VCR's. Aside from your recommendation, the 9xxx and AG1980 are better choices anyway IMO, if in good shape. I'm afraid I used my ancient then-new 9800 to death and never replaced it (bought one at auction later that was in sad shape, returned it thanks to PayPal).

The JVC to avoid IMO is the 9911. I returned two of them in one week. At least the 101 was better than that.
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  #9  
08-18-2014, 01:39 PM
volksjager volksjager is offline
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the 9911 is ok if you have a good one - ive had several good ones as well as a couple bad ones
it uses the same mech as 7800/7900/V10

the most important factor with the JVC TBC decks is how much use they have on them and/or how well they where maintained.
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  #10  
08-18-2014, 01:55 PM
premiumcapture premiumcapture is offline
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As Sanlyn has said, the 9xxx performs very well with retail, and its made some tapes I've used almost look DVD quality.

JVC VCRs have a stabilizer function that works with some tapes. My favorite Panasonic feature was flag removal, but it is overall more stable than any JVC I've tried.

I personally prefer the PQ of the JVC, even with personal tapes, but you can't go wrong with either.
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  #11  
08-18-2014, 02:00 PM
HDClown HDClown is offline
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I only have 2 retail tapes that I would need to pull video from, and it's only 13 minutes off video off each tape. Otherwise, everything else is home made stuff. TGrant has a refurbished AG-1980 on sale, so maybe I'll pick that up. Seems like the safest bet.
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  #12  
08-18-2014, 02:05 PM
premiumcapture premiumcapture is offline
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As much as I love my JVC, I wouldn't feel right recommending you to eBay unless you buy from someone who specializes in VCRs.

I would recommend getting it from him. Once you're done, someone on here or eBay will definitely buy it from you. I've done business with him and was happy with the VCR.

Let him know I sent you, can't promise a discount but worth a shot
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  #13  
08-22-2014, 06:22 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
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If price is not a concern, then buy two decks:
(1) Panasonic AG-19p0P is NTSC -or- Panasonic HS-NV1000 is PAL
(2) JVC HR-S9600, 9800 or 9900 for NTSC -or- JVC HR-S8965EK for PAL

If money isn't a limiting factor, then don't limit yourself by only getting one!

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
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  #14  
10-03-2014, 08:00 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by premiumcapture View Post
I own a 9600 and two 7800s, and will say that while the best picture quality I have seen on a VCR has come from the 9600, it will not track EP very well. The 7800s, on the other hand, have so far done a fantastic job. I would look for one of those on eBay. I currently have two for sale on the sales board for less than that, but I would agree with Sanlyn that the AG 1980s generally provide the best, most consistent tracking.

Because the 1980 is prone to capacitor failure over time, eBay sales can be pretty inconsistent with quality. If you decide to go down that route, I would talk to Tom Grant at tgrantphoto.com. He refurbishes all his machines, and I can tell you from experience that buying a refurbished 1980 for $330 is better than gambling on eBay. Return shipping on a VCR can be $20-$30, so its really not worth trial and error unless you are going to fix it yourself.
I tried TGrantPhoto myself. Originally I bought a refurb 1980 from another seller who claimed to specialize in rebuilding AG-1980's. But it had dim image and tbc problems. Rather than fiddle with the seller at their high prices, I gave TGrantPhoto a chance at their repair package price. TGrant found a bad video head and other problems in this expensive "rebuild". So at no extra cost he sent a replacement rebuild of his own. When it arrived it looked good, but there were intermittent chroma problems with a couple of tapes. I reported this to TGrant and he offered to pay re-ship back to them for a checkup. This all happened rather quickly, in days rather than weeks, and the problem turned out to be oddball Macrovision effects. The replacement was returned and worked OK, and I used a recommended quick and simple workaround for the bad tapes which worked perfectly. All this was a repair/replacement at roughly half the price I paid for the original overpriced "rebuild".

I'll avoid the original eBay seller in the future. Kick myself for not going to TGrant in the first place, where I could have bought that TGrant replacement for 1/3 less than I paid for a defective original in the first place. http://www.tgrantphoto.com/sales/ind...epair-services
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  #15  
10-03-2014, 08:06 AM
volksjager volksjager is offline
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who was the ebay seller?
i have had bad dealings with a few as well.
good to call them out so others dont get screwed.
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  #16  
10-03-2014, 10:01 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Well...don't really like to badmouth anybody, because the bad unit could have been an oversight. Dealer was Southern Advantage. But I've seen complaints elsewhere. They also sell supposedly "new" units at pretty much the same price they sold for retail years back. What they do for rebuilds seems to be anyone's guess. The used unit I bought looked pretty clean, anyway. I used it for about a year and it performed seemingly well at first -- a beginner wouldn't see any subtle problems at first. But I noticed problems after later trying to restore a couple of early captures. Two problem I saw were small, subtle but temporary ripples in small parts of the image, especially at scene changes, a somewhat relatively dim image, and faint but visible edge twitter during motion. TGrant spotted a broken video head right away and a working but really over-aged y/c board. He said many caps had been replaced, but not with the best types.

Over the years I've had a few DOA's from eBay sellers with other brands, along with a couple of keepers. Par for the course for used stuff, I guess, and they weren't nearly as expensive. My average on eBay over several years for any 3 mainstream VCR's was 1 unit with various problems (repair would be possible), 1 unit in pristine shape, and 1 that was a total dud. So I guess 1 out of 3 isn't a bad average for VCR's being 10 to 15 years old at the time. The good units were higher-end Panasonics and JVC's. This was my first time out for an AG-1980. It replaced a JVC 7600 that died years ago.
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  #17  
10-03-2014, 10:04 AM
premiumcapture premiumcapture is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Over the years I've had a few DOA's from eBay sellers with other brands, along with a couple of keepers.
I've experienced this as well. Something to consider about buying from eBay is that if it costs $30 to ship a VCR and it takes you 5 tries to get the right unit, you are looking at $150 on shipping. Perhaps 5 is a bit high, but there is a lot of crap on the site.
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  #18  
10-03-2014, 11:03 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Yep, you takes your chances at auction sites, eBay's not the sole offender. As time passes, finding a good unit gets tougher. Today I see maybe less than 1/4 the number of VCR offerings at eBay. The current listings are mostly newer low-tier stuff, at some really silly high prices.

Among non-pro VCR's I managed to collect a good Panasonic SVHS PV-S4670 and PV-S4672 (both 1996), a Panny PV-8661 and PV-8662 (both circa 1998). No tbc, but these are quite good with the right tbc pass-thru. Also a couple of JVC 7600's, neither of which lasted very long but worked OK at first. The Pannies were clean, shop-checked, came in at 60 to 100 bucks, the jvc's were totally overpriced at more than that. You soon learn to avoid sellers who don't specialize in a/v electronics, don't offer refunds/returns at all, don't appear to know what they're talking about, or sell stuff like dinnerware sets and trailer hitches in their "store".

Case in point: $35 for a 1990 SONY HF-585SLV (did I get the number right?) quoted as "tested and working perfectly". No so. All of the takeup rollers and tension guides were missing, and no capstan!!!! PayPal offered a refund, but I said to hell with it and just threw it away. I was in a hurry.

Another 15-year-old SONY with remote, same model, in good shape but a worn capstan, maybe a few other slight problems, but it did work. $60. I bought this for nostalgia, and for ~250 hours of tapes recorded on that VCR. A guy in Florida rebuilt the whole thing for $200, with new SONY heads (try buying SONY OEM heads today!). I still use it now and then. Weighs a ton, works like a dream, tracking so stable it often doesn't need a line tbc. Expensive, but as-is it's now a VCR collector's item.

Panasonic PV-8661, $50. Arrived with a VHS tape still loaded, had become dislodged in shipping and broke the loading door, loading mechanism, and a guide roller. Interior had what looked like remnants of sand in it. Got in a hurry, said to hell with it, and forgot about it. Last of the big spenders, that's me.

A fairly new 2002 Sharp VCR. Worked OK. Horrible picture. Now used as a nice slow, gentle rewinder. $40.

The PV-S4670 Dynamorphous I mentioned was won at auction for under $100. Came with its original carton, remote, manual, and copies of 3 receipts for shop maintenance over several years. Clean as a whistle inside and out, even had a new tape cleaning bob installed. Beautiful playback with lots of crummy Kojak EP tapes recorded off antenna on an ancient RCA top-loader. Sometimes you win.

I don't suppose any of this is unusual. Also helps to be employed while you're collecting this crap, not retired.

With a good working AG-1980, why use my other players? Some tapes, especially 20-year olds recorded on different machines from SONY to Panny to a 1992 JVC to an old Hitachi, just look better on a different machine.

Good luck to one and all in this crazy endeavor.
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  #19  
10-03-2014, 04:12 PM
premiumcapture premiumcapture is offline
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In many seller's defense, I imagine few people know how a VCR should properly work and this number is shrinking exponentially. Ask someone under 10 (born 2004+) and there's a coin flip they think its a TV channel
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10-03-2014, 09:05 PM
VideoTechMan VideoTechMan is offline
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Alot of sellers that sell these units either don't know alot about them and therefore sell them 'as is' and you also find those who always say that they have no way to test them so sold as is. Doesn't help my confidence to buy from those sellers. But as mentioned you do find some good ones, just have to be diligent. I managed to snag the AG-5710 (the 1980 cousin) from a seller recently, and it arrived clean and had no dimming problems and plays my tapes great. Of course the 5710 isn't as common as the 1980 is, so there's a better chance of getting a good unit that hasn't been beat to hell and back.

The big challenge usually comes from the broadcast decks, and I have a few of those like the Panny AG-DS840 and 850. And both I have had serviced. I also have a Betacam SP (PVW-2800)deck that I bought for around $250, it arrived and it worked quite well with no major issues. Heads on those decks are VERY expensive, provided you can still get them.

One just have to be diligent when seeking a good unit and if you do find one, grab it and have it serviced if needed. I find it interesting on how some of these sellers are getting these higher end units, not knowing a thing about them. Many of them don't even know a thing about checking the hours on them (for the broadcast decks) or if they were ever serviced.
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