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06-22-2015, 04:20 PM
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I've finally set up/adjusted/troubleshooted everything on my WinXP/ATI 9600XT/MMC Capture PC...I was wondering about those obvious horizontal lines in my .avi files, Is that normal? I have included .MPEG files also of the Same footage for any observation?...Any RFI/EFI noticeable?..Please excuse the color/contrast for now!..Also With..w/out AVToolbox for analysis/opinion...OOPs Still searching for Uploaded .avi/.mpeg files....Still dont get how to access/view my uploaded files to FTP?

Last edited by rocko; 06-22-2015 at 04:57 PM. Reason: add
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  #2  
06-25-2015, 07:11 PM
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Here's the links to my 10 second files that are missing from my previous post above! (Figured out how easy it is to find my uploaded FTP files). Submitted to ask if they look OK or if I'm doing anything wrong?..(the mpeg files are recorded at High 15mbps rate). Using Mitsubishi HD2000U VCR, with built in TBC ON, "Normal" playback setting, (not "soft" or "sharp") and ATI MMC Videosoap "Despecle" at 17%. Duplicate avi and mpeg clips are captured with/without AVtoolbox 8710,at default settings. http://cdn4.digitalFAQ.com/rockovids...WithAVtool.avi http://cdn4.digitalFAQ.com/rockovids...tAVtoolbox.avi http://cdn4.digitalFAQ.com/rockovids...tAVtoolbox.mpg http://cdn4.digitalFAQ.com/rockovids...hAVtoolbox.mpg

Last edited by rocko; 06-25-2015 at 07:26 PM. Reason: change
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  #3  
06-28-2015, 02:05 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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I haven't used MMC since 2002 (I capture via ATI-AIW/VirtualDub only), and I never liked VideoSoap anyway (t doesn't despeckle, IMO, it just smears). So I can't advise about any settings that might have affected the YUV color corruption seen in the captures. The mpg's have one-half the horizontal resolution of the captures and look blurred. All the captures look a bit over filtered and soft, but the usual "noise" is best handled with more advanced denoisers in post-processing, I should think. Anyway, the two big problems I see are some bad line twitter and aliasing, and what looks like chroma channel inversion and a "hot" blue (U) channel. Too much soft detail for stronger anti-alias or line twitter work, so I didn't didn't go there.

I don't know the source of the color problem. Black levels are up around RGB 32. At the end of the clip, chroma exceeds 255 and there's bright clipping, probably in the camera and mostly in the sky. The camera's AGC changed luminance and gamma 3 or 4 times during the clip, and the train changes color from greenish to purply.

The images below are from (approximately) frame 7 (original on the left, color correction on the right). I don't remember seeing bright green intersection markers along highways, and the colors on the ground don't seem to match the terrain.
Frame 7 (before = left, after = right):


Major gamma changes and a color balance change seen here at about frame 375. There's not much you can do with this sort of thing during capture (it's the camera's fault). I always thought that Union Pacific logos were orange or yellow (?), maybe not, but I never UP in bright dayglo green. On the left, the train is pruple.
Frame 375 (original = left, after = right):


Color balance is a personal preference, of course (not counting purple trains except on Sesame Street). Colors change during the clip, but some Avisynth fixed most of it for the duration of the clip, with a little of VirtualDub's Camcorder Color Denoise for the stains and rainbows and ColorMill to clean up the basic hues a little more. The Avisynth code used in the script that opened the lossless UP844aviWithoutAVtoolbox.avi:

Code:
ColorYUV(off_y=-18, gain_y=15)
Tweak(coring=false,Hue=30)
ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true)
SmoothLevels(16,1.1,255,16,240,chroma=200,limiter=0,tvrange=true,dither=100,protect=6)
The attached mpg is interlaced MPEG2 for SD BluRay @10,000 bits target VBR and 15000 max.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg frame 7 - oirginal vs after.jpg (65.8 KB, 52 downloads)
File Type: jpg frame 375 - original vs after.jpg (85.6 KB, 52 downloads)
Attached Files
File Type: mpg UP844NoAVT_04ccd.mpg (15.89 MB, 4 downloads)
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  #4  
06-30-2015, 10:03 AM
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Thank you Sanlyn, I do suspect less than optimum results, being that the original Camera was a late 80's consumer grade Standard VHS, and the master tape is just about as old, but well taken care of. I did mess with the MMC Color/Tint/Contrast/Bright/Gamma till it looked good to me (but I am semi/color blind!)(Operator Error!)...Union Pacific colors should be ("Armor Yellow", and then Grey) But most people who would be viewing the final video are more interested in the action/sound...I'm wondering if I should try using Virtual Dub, instead of MMC to get a more accurate capture?.(I'm after getting captures with as little "coloration" of the original as possible)..I'm pretty sure my (Almost new) Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U with TBC On is working good...A few years ago, I did get a capture with Really Obvious Brightness/Gamma changes, But changed out a bad S-Video cable going from VHS-to-AVToolBox8710 IN...Lately I have not been using The Toolbox, just the TBC on the Mitsu.

Last edited by rocko; 06-30-2015 at 10:11 AM. Reason: add
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  #5  
06-30-2015, 11:31 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Going by memory on the UP colors, not having bounced around the UP railyards in Memphis since I was a toddler. Armour Yellow has some red in it, tending to orange. Pure yellow is equal parts Red + Green. If you have more red than green, the yellow will tend toward orange. Pure bright yellow is kind of rough on the eyes with big machines.

Did a lot of super-detail modeling work with aircraft, cars, and airbush work, etc. Most of the modelers, train fans, auto addicts and history buffs were usually sticklers for color. I guess the average viewer wouldn't know, but watching a video is enhanced when you feel you're looking at the real thing and can get more involved. But that's just me. Nowadays people have been trained to accept anything.

It's up to you whether you want Virtualdub caps or not. You can hook into your capture card's proc amp using "Video" -> "Levels" in the capture menu. With VHS you're fighting a losing battle with real-time precise color correction, because VHS (and your camera) will change the color balance every time something moves. Difficult to find a happy medium during capture.

Post-process noise reduction is more efficient, more effective, and less damaging than denoisers available with most capture setups. A lossles capture allows for any direction you want to go with final delivery, web use, archiving, etc. Remember that whatever you do with your archive copy, you won't get back anything you threw away when making it.
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  #6  
06-30-2015, 01:11 PM
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[QUOTE=sanlyn;38703]
Quote:
Going by memory on the UP colors, not having bounced around the UP railyards in Memphis since I was a toddler. Armour Yellow has some red in it, tending to orange. Pure yellow is equal parts Red + Green. If you have more red than green, the yellow will tend toward orange. Pure bright yellow is kind of rough on the eyes with big machines.
Yes! Exactly what I found on this site: http://utahrails.net/up/up-paint-html.php
Quote:
Did a lot of super-detail modeling work with aircraft, cars, and airbush work, etc. Most of the modelers, train fans, auto addicts and history buffs were usually sticklers for color. I guess the average viewer wouldn't know, but watching a video is enhanced when you feel you're looking at the real thing and can get more involved. But that's just me. Nowadays people have been trained to accept anything.
..Yes Agreed,

Quote:
You can hook into your capture card's proc amp "Video" -> "Levels" in the capture menu.
...Using VirtualDub?
Quote:
With VHS you're fighting a losing battle with real-time precise color correction, because VHS (and your camera) will change the color balance every time something moves. Difficult to find a happy medium during capture.
....Yes Plus I think the "Auto Iris" was also affecting things?..Later I found out how to turn it off!

Quote:
Post-process noise reduction is more efficient, more effective, and less damaging than denoisers available with most capture setups. A lossles capture allows for any direction you want to go with final delivery, web use, archiving, etc. Remember that whatever you do with your archive copy, you won't get back anything you threw away when making it.
.....Yes this is what I'm after..Is there a "Neutral" setting in V-Dub or ATI MMC so I can be sure it's the way the tape is? then correct later on my "Editing" PC?...While not trying to turn this into a railroad discussion, These are colors I am most familiar with, (UP Armor Yellow and 2-tone grey)..And helps me identify what I need to do!..I surely would not want to post a Purple train video to the Rail-Video websites!!

Last edited by rocko; 06-30-2015 at 01:13 PM. Reason: add
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