VirtualDub error, Hi8 transfer to DV camera to PC

[momnewbie]

Here we go. I just want to say thank you in advance for putting up with my extreme ignorance on this subject. However, I have been trying to read all that I can to make this work but have run into a wall. I may have even read the answer but not understood what I was reading.

I have Hi8 home movies (Sony CCD-TRV101 NTSC) that I am transferring through mini DV camera (Cannon ZR45 MC) via firewire to my PC. My computer info- X7200
Processor- Intel Core i7 CPU 980@ 3.33GHz
graphics card- (2) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460M
Windows 7 Pro

Not sure if you need any more info on the PC

Here is the issue. When I open Virtualdub and select Huffyuv 720x480 YUY2, I get an error code: "The capture device does not support the selected video format." It says that for every combination of frame size and data format I choose. Now, if I play the tape I can view it in Virtualdub. There is also nothing listed in the video source tab. Does that mean it can't see my camera? And if it can't, why can I see the video playing through Virtualdub on my screen.

I can capture movies through Window Media this way but I would prefer to get a better quality transfer with Virtualdub, Huffyuv to H.264 or MPEG 2

I am actually surprised that I have made it this far with my limited knowledge of computers but I truly love these videos and want to preserve them in the best way possible and within what I can afford. Thank you again for your time!

[sanlyn]

Your camera outputs DV, not analog.
VirtualDub cannot be used to capture DV.
Huffyuv can't be used to compress DV, which is a lossy-encoded codec, not exactly friendly to analog source.

[momnewbie]

Hmmm ok. Thank you for your reply. So I would need to send the analog video directly to the PC? For some reason I thought the analog video had to be converted to digital before it was sent to the PC.

[sanlyn]

When you capture VHS don't you use an analog capture card that takes in analog video input and converts it to an unencoded digital stream inside your computer? The processing that accepts analog video input and outputs it as digitized video to the PC is done by analog capture cards and their capture drivers.

DV-AVI is lossy encoded digital video. Bedsides embedding tape noise as digital artifacts that you will have a hairy time trying to clean up, DV is PC-only media that must go through yet another lossy encode every time a cleanup or color correction is performed, and again for final output to delivery formats. External media players, set top players, etc., and the internet do not support DV-AVI. Each stage of lossy encoding loses more and more data from the original input. What you input to lossy encoding is not what you get back when decoding. Each lossy encode stage loses more data. The loss is not recoverable between encodes.

[momnewbie]

Thank you. I understand a lot better now. Is there a relatively inexpensive capture card out there that would work for what I need? Can it be used externally or do I have to replace one of my current graphics cards with it? Also, I have DV tapes that need to be transfered to the computer as well. What would be the best avenue for that, firewire using Scenalyzer?

[sanlyn]

I think lordsmurf or other staff mentioned earlier that Hi8 tapes require an analog hi8 player if you want lossless capture. Lacking that, you have two choices: either (a) have a pro shop make a lossless capture for you, or (b) use a DV camera to capture the tape as DV-AVI with WinDV or Scenalyzer. If you go with (b) you can decode the DV to lossless media with Avisynth for cleanup and editing, then encode to your final output choice as the last step. DV compression noise is the problem with analog->DV capture.

DV tapes must use Firewire and transfer software such as Scenalyzer. DV is copied, not captured.

[lordsmurf]

Ignorance is easily fixed by education -- with willingness and effort. So you're taking the right steps.

Yes, Hi8 tapes really need a high-quality Hi8 camera in mint condition. The format is really nice to work with, as long as your hardware is good. (Finding good 1990s hardware in the 2010s, of course, is easier said than done.)

DV is a specific format, with a specific method to transfer it.
Analog formats (example: Hi8) require analog capturing methods, and that's where VirtualDub, Huffyuv, etc, come in.

[momnewbie]

Thank you! Fortunately I was able to purchase a mint Sony CCD-TRV101 NTSC handicam. I have two options.

1. Buy a capture card. Do you know if there are any lower cost decent ones out there? Can they be used externally or do they have to be installed internally?

2. Transfer via my dv camera and make discs so we can at least watch our movies. Then save money to gradually send these beloved tapes to you to have them transferred to lossless. What do you store the lossless information on? I have about 25 tapes so it may take me a year to afford to complete this process. Will my tapes degrade significantly is this amount of time?

Thank you so much.