Transfer DV tapes to raw .dv?

BrandoL10 · #1 09-07-2016, 04:18 AM

Is there a program that does a 1:1 transfer for DV Tapes to .dv? I am looking to transfer in this file format for archiving my tapes in a digital form, as well as being able to create watchable versions for both Mac and PC by wrapping the files in their respective containers.

sanlyn · #2 09-07-2016, 05:09 AM

DV is copied (1:1) without re-encoding to its original DV fomat via Firewire cable to a PC using copy software such as WinDV (Wndows XP), usually into an AVI container file. Other software is vailable for your operating system, which you didn't specify.

DV isn't "wrapped" in another format. DV is lossy DV format, period. It is PC-only playback, not supported by external devices, optical disc formats, or the internet. For more universal playback, DV must be re-encoded to more modern formats (DVD, standard definition BluRay/AVCHD, mp4 containers, etc.) using other codecs such as MPEG or h.264.

BrandoL10 · #3 09-07-2016, 05:54 AM

Okay, so how do I copy my tapes without a container? My primary OS for viewing home videos is OS X, however I own a Windows 10 PC as well and would like the flexibility of viewing my tapes on both. By 1:1 transfer, I meant copying the tape over in its original codec only.

sanlyn · #4 09-07-2016, 11:26 AM

The container file is created by the transfer device and software the same way any software app on any computer creates a data file. For a 1:1 DV copy you require either a computer with an IEEE1394 Firewire input or a Firewire PCI or PCIe adapter card. Unfortunately DV is an absolete format whose hardware support had disappeared from modern computers. The Firewire add-on cards in PCI or PCIe mounts that are recommended use TI (Texas Instruments) processor chips -- cards with other processors don't seem to work very well. The SIIG brand has several of those cards. You also need a Firewire cable to connect your camera to the computer. Mac doesn't support Firewire. Windows 10 dropped Firewire support but can be equipped with Firewire drivers from Microsoft, but it's a hassle to install and adjust registry settings to get the drivers to work. The best hardware and software devices for DV transfer were for Windows XP, with a little of the remaining support in Win7. DV can be played on any computer if DV codecs are installed. Many computer media players have their own built-in DV codec.

Users of Windows10 can help with some of the driver and other issues when they see this thread. But considering the effort, expense, and learning curve that are likely required with your OS systems, you're probably better off finding a transfer service that will create the DV-AVI files for you. Otherwise those familiar with Windows 10 Firewire issues will offer more detail. You might also be able to find more experts in that regard at www.videohelp.com where DV is a hot topic with its members.

Meanwhile comments and corrections are welcome from others here.

lordsmurf · #5 09-09-2016, 01:56 AM

DV is a "raw" (but highly compressed) format. It must exist in a container. It cannot exist as a ".dv" file.
Those containers are AVI (Windows) and Quicktime (Apple, mov).

It's a lot like CD music. CD audio is raw digital data, and must be put in a container for computer use (WAV, AIFF, etc).

The "capture"/transfer software, like WinDV, wraps it in the container for you. It's all automatic.

DV codecs must be installed on the system for playback.
Most standalone media centers (HTPCs, WDTV, etc) cannot play that codec.

BrandoL10 · #6 09-09-2016, 08:31 AM

I see. However, if I were to use a program like WinDV and import to AVI, could I then rewrap the video as a MOV without any quality loss? I use both OS X and Windows regularly, and would like to preserve my tapes in a way that is compatible with both.

sanlyn · #7 09-09-2016, 09:24 AM

You seem to be confused about containers and codecs. Containers are wrappers for video content along with tech data about the natrure of the contents and how the video content is to be decoded and played. Codecs are used to encode and decode digital video content.
AVI is a container, not a codec.
MOV is a container, not a codec.
DV is a codec. DV is not lossless. Regardless of the container, DV is PC or Mac computer playback only.
WinDV won't work on Macs or Windows 10. WinDV and similar DV transfer apps require Firewire for a true 1:1 transfer.

BrandoL10 · #8 09-09-2016, 11:13 AM

I understand the difference between a codec and a container. My reason for wanting the raw dv was so I had a neutral format that could be wrapped manually for use on both OSes. Since that doesn't seem possible, I am asking if when inside one container, the dv video can be rewrapped into another without re encoding e.g AVI contents rewrapped to a MOV. Sorry if I wasn't clear about this. Also, I have a copy of Windows XP laying around that could maybe be run in a virtual machine for WinDV, I just need a FireWire Card for my PC. As for playback, my main concern is Mac and PC.

sanlyn · #9 09-09-2016, 12:15 PM

There are many more users of DV and Macs at videohelp. Try their Mac forum. There are some Mac users at digitalfaq but not many and they don't seem to show up that often. Lordsmurf might chime in on this. Also found a few links to VH posts, most recommend using QuickTime Pro in a Mac. The DV should be playable on Mac and Windows if Dv codecs are installed. Try this link: http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/3...o-MOV-%28DV%29.

Are you using a Mac or a Windows PC? Many XP apps won't work with XP in VM mode due to hardware quirks. If you're using a Mac remember that your hardware is Mac, not PC. I'm surprised you haven't been to Mac user forums already ? ? ?

lordsmurf · #10 09-09-2016, 05:58 PM

Don't send our users to other sites. They came here for a reason.

You can re-wrap many video files, yes.
Avidemux is one common way to do so.
However, AVI is really the only way to wrap DV on Windows, and Quicktime on Mac. But Macs read AVI just fine.

Mac should natively have a DV codec installed. It was, and still is, a DV-centric workflow.

"XP mode" in Windows is terrible. Use a real VM instead, such as the freeware Sun/Oracle Virtualbox.

I use both Mac and Windows (and Linux), and have zero issues using a DV AVI in all of them. Works fine.

sanlyn · #11 09-11-2016, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

You can re-wrap many video files, yes.
Avidemux is one common way to do so.
However, AVI is really the only way to wrap DV on Windows, and Quicktime on Mac. But Macs read AVI just fine.

That's what I thought. So there's no need to wrap DV-AVI with .MOV. Thanks for confirming. I last played video on Mac in 1998.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

"XP mode" in Windows is terrible. Use a real VM instead, such as the freeware Sun/Oracle Virtualbox.

I was under the impression that WinDV wouldn't work in an XP VM. So how does the O.P. get DV transferred 1:1 to his PC or Mac or an XP VM? That's the part that remains unanswered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Don't send our users to other sites. They came here for a reason.

Ooops, didn't mean it quite that way. I was curious whether the owner made use of manufacturer's user forums (Mac, Adobe, Vegas, Hauppauge, etc.). But you are correct, OEM user forums don't always have the right answers, either.

BrandoL10 · #12 09-20-2016, 02:07 AM

Sorry for responding a bit late. I just wanted to let you know that I have come up with a solution. In short, I had an XP desktop with a FireWire card that I gave to a friend a couple of years ago. He doesn't use it anymore and is willing to give it back to me in about a week from now. I want to thank the both of you for your time and invaluable help.