Go Back    Forum > Digital Video > Video Project Help > Capture, Record, Transfer

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
02-04-2018, 10:21 PM
bfollowell bfollowell is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 13
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
As most of you are probably aware, FireWire support/drivers were dropped out of version 8 on and most, if not all hardware made in the last six to eight years no longer has 1394 ports.

I have a newer rig I'd built a couple of months ago with all newer hardware, so I picked up an add-on FireWire card for $25. I downloaded the legacy drivers and installed those. My system seems to recognize the card easily enough but, even after two days of trying, nothing seems to recognize my miniDV camcorder as a video capture device. I've tried WinDV and Scenalyzer, but I get nothing.

I have enough old components to put together an nForce 780i based system with a Core2Duo 2.66 GHz processor with a 1394 port built onto the motherboard and setup a very basic, simple system used just to capture my old miniDV tapes.

I'm at the point where I think it would be easier and quicker to set this up. My question is, which older version of Windows would be best to install for compatibility with FireWire? XP, Vista, or Windows 7? I have all three available.

Thanks.
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
02-04-2018, 11:29 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,363
Thanked 2,434 Times in 2,069 Posts
XP. For video, the answer is always XP. XP was the SD video era of hardware and software.
Then 7.
Almost never anything else.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #3  
02-05-2018, 07:49 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA
Posts: 1,688
Thanked 366 Times in 322 Posts
A note on Win 7 firewire. In many cases it is best to revert to the WIN 7 "legacy" IEEE1394 driver. The driver installed by default (with Win 7) is not the Legacy driver and does not work with some devices.

Also, not all IEEE1394 chips work equally well. Cards based on the TI chip seem to have the fewest reportd issues.

I've seen issues with MB ports based on some version of the VIA chip, and with add-in cards based on no-name chips.

My main Edit system is a Win 7, i7 4970k, Z97 motherboard with the following PCI-E add-in card:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16815124107
It has worked well for me with Canon camcorders, Sony devices including GV-D200, and Canopus ADVC devices.

One issue on camcorders. With some models it is easy to fry the IEEE1394 port if connections are made while systems are powered.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
02-05-2018, 06:44 PM
bfollowell bfollowell is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 13
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpalomaki View Post
My main Edit system is a Win 7, i7 4970k, Z97 motherboard with the following PCI-E add-in card:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16815124107
It has worked well for me with Canon camcorders, Sony devices including GV-D200, and Canopus ADVC devices.

One issue on camcorders. With some models it is easy to fry the IEEE1394 port if connections are made while systems are powered.
That's the same, exact card I purchased from Amazon. I made certain to switch to the Legacy driver and I haven't tried any hot-swapping. As I said, my system sees the card easily enough. It just never recognizes my camcorder.

Thanks very much to both of you for your responses.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
02-05-2018, 08:18 PM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA
Posts: 1,688
Thanked 366 Times in 322 Posts
Which camcorder(s) are you trying?

As I recall, some devices may want to see a specific power-up sequence (e.g., camcorder first, then PC, or perhaps the other way around).

Can you try another camcorder with the PC, or your camcorder with another firewire PC to verify they both are working.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
02-05-2018, 08:42 PM
bfollowell bfollowell is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 13
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpalomaki View Post
Which camcorder(s) are you trying?

As I recall, some devices may want to see a specific power-up sequence (e.g., camcorder first, then PC, or perhaps the other way around).

Can you try another camcorder with the PC, or your camcorder with another firewire PC to verify they both are working.
I have a Canon Elura 70.

Unfortunately, no to both of your questions. I'm just a home user trying to capture old home videos, not a professional. As a result, I don't have access to a lot of other cameras, or other computers with FireWire capability. I do have enough spare parts around to build a basic, working PC with FireWire capability though. That's why I was asking about the best version of Windows to install. I'm fairly certain the camcorder works though, just because it was rarely used and was in perfect working condition when I stored it eight years ago or so. I can't believe that it just "went bad" stored in a cool, dry, dark location. It could be the cable too, though. I couldn't find my original and purchase a new one from Amazon. I have no way to confirm it is good, though, since I have no other FireWire devices and no other computer, yet, with FireWire capability.

This is the cable I purchased:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'll experiment with the boot sequence though, before I jump into putting it together.

Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
02-05-2018, 08:52 PM
bfollowell bfollowell is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 13
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I just confirmed that it doesn't seem to make any difference whether the computer is booted first or the camcorder. It still doesn't detect the camcorder.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
02-06-2018, 07:05 AM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,150
Thanked 355 Times in 291 Posts
Drivers for Firewire in Windows was always pretty dodgy. Camcorders generally worked, but mass storage devices were very hit or miss. The whole reason "legacy" drivers exist in Windows is because Microsoft re-wrote the whole stack in Vista.

I'll add to what others are saying though. I have never had a problem using my motherboard's onboard TI sourced Firewire controller in Windows 7 for DV capture. The Syba card uses a TI chip, so there shouldn't be too many issues. Remember that if you want to try the "legacy" driver in Windows 8-10, you have to download it: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...ndows-8-1-or-w
Reply With Quote
  #9  
02-06-2018, 07:12 AM
bfollowell bfollowell is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 13
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJRoadfan View Post
Remember that if you want to try the "legacy" driver in Windows 8-10, you have to download it: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...ndows-8-1-or-w
Yeah, like I said in my original post, I'd already downloaded and installed those. It didn't help.

Thanks for the reminder.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
02-06-2018, 08:10 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA
Posts: 1,688
Thanked 366 Times in 322 Posts
FWIW: Canon's guide for at least some Eluras.
https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART121600

Do you see any message on the camcorder screen when connected and powered on (e.g., "DV IN" in the lower right corner of the LCD)? If no "DV IN" message there is no connection.

The firewire ports on many Canon camcorders have a reputation of being rather fragile, subject to both physical damage (broken connections at the circuit board) and frying. They are NOT reliably hot swapable. It is quite possible that the port on your Elura may have been over stressed or fried at some time in the past. (It happened to a HV20 I had.)

Try find a neighbor, friend, etc. who has a firewire-equipped PC or camcorder to do the test if you can. If no friend/neighbor can help, perhaps a local videographer who was in business during the tape days could help you out on this test (perhaps for a nominal fee).
Reply With Quote
  #11  
02-06-2018, 08:11 AM
Liberty610 Liberty610 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 43
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I'm a newbie to the forum, and I'm learning as I go, but I just built this Windows 10 system recently, which the board had no FireWire as it is a brand new board just released last year:

https://pcpartpicker.com/b/BqHhP6

I bought a PCIe FireWire card specifically for video camera capture. I have a cannon HV30 and I have had no issues so far capturing DV or HDV with the add on card I purchased. This was the card I bought from Rosewill:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004F3DM6C?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf

Others here will know what's best for sure, and I'll I can go off of is my personal experience. But so far so good.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
02-06-2018, 08:20 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA
Posts: 1,688
Thanked 366 Times in 322 Posts
Quote:
...I have a cannon HV30...
To be safer, be sure to never try to hot-swap the firewire port, or move the camcorder much while the cable is connected.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
02-06-2018, 08:22 AM
Liberty610 Liberty610 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 43
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanks for the tip! What do you mean exactly buy 'hot swapping'? I know the term for hard drive slots, as my old case had one, but in the case of the HV30, what would that mean?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
02-06-2018, 08:24 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA
Posts: 1,688
Thanked 366 Times in 322 Posts
Connecting/disconnecting anything (e.g., firewire, remote) while the camcorder is powered on.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank dpalomaki for this useful post: Liberty610 (02-08-2018)
  #15  
02-06-2018, 08:30 AM
Liberty610 Liberty610 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 43
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Oh man, thanks for the heads up! I did that twice the other day, because the camera wasn't being seen at first.

In the instance, what should I power on/run first? Do you launch the capture app first, then turn the camera on? Because I noticed that the camera wasn't being detected at first, and that's when I did the hot swap....
Reply With Quote
  #16  
02-08-2018, 06:07 AM
bfollowell bfollowell is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 13
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Something that occurred to me later, I do not have my add-on card powered. I have the Syba SY-PEX30016, TI-based card. It has a molex connector for power that I have not connected. I was assuming that this is for peripherals that expect to be powered from the FireWire port, which I'm assuming would not be needed for capturing video from a miniDV camcorder. Did I assume incorrectly?

On the troubleshooting side of things I don't hold out much hope to finding anyone in my circles with a computer with a FireWire port. It's been far too long since they came on a motherboard and I wouldn't say they were ever really what I'd call mainstream. I did find a co-worker that has a miniDV camcorder though. He's going to bring it in for me to borrow to help with my troubleshooting. I still plan to put together the old Core2Duo/Windows XP SP3-based system that I mentioned this coming weekend. Hopefully, between the two systems and the two camcorders, I can start to narrow the issues down to my main computer, my camcorder, or the new cable/card I bought.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
02-08-2018, 06:31 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA
Posts: 1,688
Thanked 366 Times in 322 Posts
The small (4-pin) IEEE1394 port (firewire) normally found on a DV camcorder does not provide power to the camcorder, only signal and control.

FWIW: the power spec for firewire ports is rather loose, and the ports on some gear (e.g., laptops and cards) may not be able to provide sufficient power for some peripherals that can be firewire powered, e.g, some of the Canopus ADVC devices. Connecting power to the Molex connector may help in these situations.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
02-08-2018, 06:43 AM
bfollowell bfollowell is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 13
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpalomaki View Post
The small (4-pin) IEEE1394 port (firewire) normally found on a DV camcorder does not provide power to the camcorder, only signal and control.

FWIW: the power spec for firewire ports is rather loose, and the ports on some gear (e.g., laptops and cards) may not be able to provide sufficient power for some peripherals that can be firewire powered, e.g, some of the Canopus ADVC devices. Connecting power to the Molex connector may help in these situations.
That's pretty much what I thought, and since I won't be using any of those devices, I don't think I need to connect power to the molex connector. I have no need to every connect anything other than a miniDV camcorder or a Digital8 camcorder.

At least I can rule that out.

Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
02-13-2018, 01:41 PM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA
Posts: 1,688
Thanked 366 Times in 322 Posts
FWIW: I just completed a new PC build based on a Z370 motherboard with an i7 8700K processor and Win 10. I used the same IEEE1394 card mentioned above, and installed the legacy IEEE 1394 driver D/L from the MS Windows Web page.

No problem capturing SD video via IEEE1394 (that was shot in 2008 with a Canon XL1) using a Canon Vixia HV40 camcorder as the player. I was using Edius 9.0 Pro NLE as the capture program. With Edius the key is to have appropriate hardware presets for the source.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
02-13-2018, 03:40 PM
bfollowell bfollowell is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 13
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I was finally able to borrow a friend's old miniDV camcorder and try it. When I plug his in and turn it on, I get the little connection sound and it does show up as a capture device in WinDV and Scenalyzer Live, so it looks like the capture card and the 1394 cable I bought were both good and everything is setup correctly. Obviously, the 1394 output port of my old Canon miniDV camcorder is burnt up.

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ATI All-in-Wonder 9600XT and Windows 7 works! NJRoadfan Capture, Record, Transfer 7 11-16-2020 01:00 AM
AIW x1900 or AIW x1800, which ATI card works in Windows 7? zack82 Project Planning, Workflows 4 12-13-2016 08:19 AM
VHS to DVD transfers look bad on new HDTV? merchantord Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 22 03-22-2016 09:31 PM
VHS to DVD transfers - whats best in UK? derick007 Project Planning, Workflows 8 11-29-2012 07:12 AM
Need the device that transfers tv shows to PC ty3 Capture, Record, Transfer 4 02-02-2006 06:42 AM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:57 AM