Video capture stops randomly in VirtualDub?

[honey_lake]

Hi all,

I’ve been having a mix of three problems lately when trying to capture our tapes. Issue [1] I’ve been dealing with for sometime, but let it slide because it usually only happens on the 1st recording attempt. Issues [2] and [3] have been recent and happen every single recording attempt:

1. Video turns B&W for a minute sometime during the first 15 mins of capture, happens at random.
2. Video stops capturing in VDub and remains on the last captured frame, audio continues to be captured. The timing on when it stops is random - 3 mins, 6 mins, 50mins, 2.5h into the video (same tape).
3. VDub starts inserting masses and masses of inserted frames, the video becomes jittery, the audio is completely distorted. The current error is pretty high during these times (200-400). Also at random. Sometimes happens after [2] if I let it keep playing long enough.

All of the above are reflected in the AVI file.

The following is me troubleshooting for [2], where the frame stops:

I plugged in a monitor to the composite VHS output, then the composite output on the capture card, and the video was still playing as normal. Granted it may be different on the actual outputs used for capture.

I tried recapturing the remainder of the video in VDub (trying with it still open, restarting the program, switching the VCR off+on), but the capture would not work and remained black. It would only function again if I unplugged the Pinnacle 710 and replugged it back in, only to still be met with the same problems minutes in.

I’ve tried changing USB ports, shutting down the computer, “reinstalling” VDub, DirectX was already off, switched from Overlay to Preview mode. Internet connections are disabled, Defender is not running. I’ve also tried switching to a fresh Windows 7 laptop with fresh installs of all software, to no avail. I do give about 20-30mins of breathing time between most tests.

Just to be clear, I was not having issues [2] and [3] before, these are recent. My setup had not changed.

Setup: JVC S-VHS S7600 > Pinnacle 710 (from LS) > VirtualDub 1.9.11, Windows 7 Laptop
No TBC because $$$$.

As a side note - I’d like to clarify settings in “Capture timing options” in VDub. So far I have just kept them at the default since I don’t have a TBC. But feedback would be helpful, just in case that may be the culprit.

Thanks!

[lordsmurf]

Check the s-video cable, and the header on both the cable and VCR.

When video sticks on the last frame, this is often either
(1) driver, drive corruption
(2) lack of frame TBC

The insert is 99%+ guaranteed lack of frame TBC.

What are your current timing setting? Screencap it -- Greenshot is a great freeware for this!
Default is wrong for this card.
However, it's not likely timing settings. Wrong settings will make it worse, but not fix it.

You need a frame TBC, even a budget option. (Not ES10/15, not here.)

You cannot avoid a TBC. Understand that us "OG" video capture folks tried to avoid TBCs 20-25 years ago. Some of us tried again and again, to find something cheaper/better in the 2000s/10s, even 20s, to no avail. You just have to suck it up, get the boring black box that "does stuff" to make your video capture life not miserable. There are ideal units for a cost, and minimal/budget units for those that need it. Noting that ideal units "just work" (mostly), while budget/minimal have compromises but better than nothing.

[honey_lake]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

What are your current timing setting? Screencap it -- Greenshot is a great freeware for this!
Default is wrong for this card.
However, it's not likely timing settings. Wrong settings will make it worse, but not fix it.

Hey! Thanks for the response. I've attached the file for the settings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

The insert is 99%+ guaranteed lack of frame TBC.
...
You need a frame TBC, even a budget option. (Not ES10/15, not here.)

You cannot avoid a TBC. Understand that us "OG" video capture folks tried to avoid TBCs 20-25 years ago. Some of us tried again and again, to find something cheaper/better in the 2000s/10s, even 20s, to no avail. You just have to suck it up, get the boring black box that "does stuff" to make your video capture life not miserable. There are ideal units for a cost, and minimal/budget units for those that need it. Noting that ideal units "just work" (mostly), while budget/minimal have compromises but better than nothing.

And yes I'm aware of the TBC thing, was just trying to see how much I can get away without one, but right now I think I'm just gonna bite the bullet given all the problems. I'm already tired having to deal with it :')

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

already tired having to deal with it

Yep, as I always state, you will pay for a TBC, one way or another. If not with money, then in sanity/frustration. With no TBC, you'll spend sanity/frustration and without getting any results. You need something. Ideal TBCs are the least hassle, but have costs. Budget units are a compromise, you save a bit of money, but still spend a bit of frustration/sanity.

See attached.

[honey_lake]

Thanks for the help LS! Settings hopefully improve some aspects. Just time to get a TBC now.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by honey_lake

Thanks for the help LS! Settings hopefully improve some aspects. Just time to get a TBC now.

FYI, these exact changes, for this exact card, may reduce sync issues caused by the computer/software. But it will have zero effect on drops due to the signal, it's not a replacement for a TBC.

[honey_lake]

Reviving this thread since I have an update to the issue above.

Thanks to LS, I ended up purchasing a TBC (1T-TBC). Whilst it will help with many future headaches, unfortunately the problem in this post is still persisting albeit slightly differently:

• Problem [2] does not occur.
• Problem [3] does. It always happens at the 2-3 minute mark, the video is not as jittery as before when this happens, but the inserted frames keep climbing (even when the video is paused/stopped) and the audio is distorted.
• I no longer need to unplug/replug the Pinnacle to get recording again.

I've tried changing some small settings - Overlay/Preview mode, HuffyUV/Default compression, no TBC but it just freezes instead.

I'm putting this down to a driver issue, although I did uninstall and reinstall the Pinnacle drivers with no improvement. The PC does have a NVIDIA GeForce GT 220M in case that's a problem that needs addressing...

Any help or troubleshooting steps will be much appreciated

-- merged --

Ok. Updating again in the hopes this might help someone else, get people's thoughts, and maybe pinpoint the issue.

So, as stated at the beginning, I tried troubleshooting the original problem over two laptops. However, I did not try to see if the latest, similar problem, also occurred on both laptops with the TBC. The issue above was with the second laptop. I've just tested this on first, original laptop and it does not have the issue I just stated above. Could it be the NVIDIA GPU with Laptop 2? I will post the differences between the two laptops here:

Laptop	Laptop 1	Laptop 2
Model	HP Pavilion Entertainment PC	ASUS N61VG
HDD	Toshiba MK2555GSXF ATA Device	ST9500325ASG
CPU	Intel Core 2 Duo	Intel Centrino 2
GPU	ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650	NVIDIA GeForce GT220M Cuda, 1GB
Windows	Windows 7 Professional	Windows 7 Ultimate
Pinnacle Settings*	To be posted.	To be posted.

*I noticed there's a difference in the way the Pinnacle settings appear in Crossbar/VDub on both laptops. Once this recording is done on the old laptop I will post screenshots here.

I'm currently recording a 3hr+ test tape on the old laptop to see if it freezes again. Will report back on success.

[mrmuy97]

Quote:

Originally Posted by honey_lake

I've just tested this on first, original laptop and it does not have the issue I just stated above. Could it be the NVIDIA GPU with Laptop 2? I will post the differences between the two laptops here:

Could be any one of a variety of software/ hardware/ BIOS/ driver-related issues. Certainly sounds like a software settings and/or driver(s) issue. Nvidia driver is always a suspect. As for a quick check, see if any errors are being reported by SMART for the Seagate. Those 5400rpm 2.5" drives are frightening and another suspect. Personally I'd only use a good SSD in there for saving initial capture. I assume VirtualDub settings on the Asus are identical to the currently working settings on the HP.

But if your alternate HP laptop ends up working fine, stick with that and get the captures completed.

The best way to diagnose the Asus and cover everything involves completely restarting from the ground up. Review and correct all BIOS settings, clean install Win7 retail or OEM if SLIC 2.1, install only correct drivers from correct source e.g. Intel chipset drivers from Intel site, properly configure Win7, properly configure capture software, potentially test out older WHQL Nvidia drivers if needed to resolve the capturing issue(s), etc, etc. Many hours. Would most likely end up solving the issue, but never guaranteed.

So if the HP works then no sense spending a huge amount of time working on the Asus.

[honey_lake]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmuy97

Could be any one of a variety of software/ hardware/ BIOS/ driver-related issues. Certainly sounds like a software settings and/or driver(s) issue. Nvidia driver is always a suspect. As for a quick check, see if any errors are being reported by SMART for the Seagate. Those 5400rpm 2.5" drives are frightening and another suspect. Personally I'd only use a good SSD in there for saving initial capture. I assume VirtualDub settings on the Asus are identical to the currently working settings on the HP.

But if your alternate HP laptop ends up working fine, stick with that and get the captures completed.

The best way to diagnose the Asus and cover everything involves completely restarting from the ground up. Review and correct all BIOS settings, clean install Win7 retail or OEM if SLIC 2.1, install only correct drivers from correct source e.g. Intel chipset drivers from Intel site, properly configure Win7, properly configure capture software, potentially test out older WHQL Nvidia drivers if needed to resolve the capturing issue(s), etc, etc. Many hours. Would most likely end up solving the issue, but never guaranteed.

So if the HP works then no sense spending a huge amount of time working on the Asus.

Yeah I'm just sticking with the HP for now since it worked fine. And the VDub settings are identical. Thanks for the suggestions with the Asus, if for whatever reason I need to switch I'll take some of these steps to diagnose the problem.

[lordsmurf]

Windows Pro vs. Home/Ultimate/Business/whatever (ie, crippled Windows) can be an issue. To be crass, those non-Pro versions insist on holding your member while you pee. It's beyond mere handholding or nannying, but downright damned creepy in how the OS tries to forces actions or inactions.

2.5" HDDs can be a problem for "live" writing data. It cannot keep up. You have to sustained test it, with large and long data. Not the default/quick/worthless "speed" tests in benchmark software. Alter the benchmark for more data. You'll quickly see weak drives crumble. A lot of those small 2.5" drives are even SMR.

Nvidia drivers octopus into systems too much these days. Those actually always have, for at least 20 years now. But it seems to get worse every few years.

Intel Centrino in an underpowered CPU, with its main focus being low heat and long battery life. In the "old days" (2000s) of capturing, Celeron was infamous for dropped frames. It was even used as an insult! ("Celeron user, ha!")

So you have at least 4 troubleshoots to trace down, if insisting on using that system.

You still needed to add the frame TBC, which was evident even on the problem system. That alone was a big difference.

Capture problems, or even just generic computer problems, are rarely singular. Very often, it's a "series of unfortunate events", sometimes even cascading. You just have to address each, and have faith you'll solve it when addressing all (that you know about!) is done.