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  #1  
07-28-2019, 01:46 PM
ido2 ido2 is offline
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Hi,

I'm interested in capturing PAL VHSC and Video8 XR (+~10% more resolution) tapes.
I have a Datavideo-1000 TBC, a Sony XR camcorder w/S-VIDEO output and builtin TBC, and a Panasonic 1980 PAL equiv. VCR for line-in TBC.
I'm not sure if I'd like to go the high road and capture with a USB stick (probably Live2) to PC, or get a DVD recorder to do the dirty work for me thought.

Planning on two capture targets: playback on digital devices (ipad, pc), as well archiving and getting rid of tapes (I doubt I'll recapture these ever after project ends).
(I still don't understand if I should reencode to h.264/h.256 for ipad/web?).

A. I'll start with (the easier?) question:
It's 2019, storage is cheap, I'll want this for archival purposes as well; should I capture in half D1 at maximum possible bitrate as suggested in older DVD recorder related posts, or at D1 as I often see in USB capture threads?
I assume D1 as suggested in USB capture threads might not be directed at VHS/Video8 which are lower bandwidth; or due to the fact that higher resolution required for better processing.
- So at which resolution should I capture by DVD Recorder, and by a USB capture device ?

B. As for DVD recorder; I'll obviously going to be a used one. I'll compare it to USB capture, and see what I like.
- Will opting for one with HDD make my life much easier (as I'll have to rip the DVD-RW anyhow), I rather work a bit harder if these newer devices are worse in quality.
- I'm asking because I have an option for buying the recommended JVC DR-M10 (PAL!), which does not have an HDD, and want to know if it's worth the hassle, or skip and wait for another recorder.


Thanks in advance,
Ido
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  #2  
07-28-2019, 11:02 PM
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Replying as I read...

- good TBC
- camera fine
- VCR good model, hopefully unit fine, maybe need re-cap, PAL equiv is NV-FS200

USB gives lossless, DVD recorders compressed to MPEG at lower DVD specs. I never do family stuff that low quality anymore, lossless or high bitrate 15-20mbps MPEG better. DVD recorder only for high quality TV recordings for hobby.

Archival leave interlace, lossless if no more capturing (edit/restore later).
Convert copy for deinterlaced streaming/device viewing.

5tb Seagate USB3 is $125, so yes cheap: https://amzn.to/2WF2cCw

- If capturing DVD res, 352x480 @ 3-hour is superbit for the res. And 352x480 exceeds VHS/Video8 source resolution anyway.
- If lossless, just do max 720x480 (full D1), as most lossless codecs require it.

AG-1980 is NTSC, but you mention PAL JVC recorder? Re-read, see it now.

JVC's LSI based recorders, like DR-M10, are best ever made.

H.265 is not as compatible as H.264 right now, I'd suggest against it. HEVC vs. AVC.

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  #3  
07-29-2019, 03:50 AM
ido2 ido2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Replying as I read...
- VCR good model, hopefully unit fine, maybe need re-cap, PAL equiv is NV-FS200
Actually a Panasonic NV-HS1000.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
I never do family stuff that low quality anymore, lossless or high bitrate 15-20mbps MPEG better. DVD recorder only for high quality TV recordings for hobby.
DR-M10 highest bitrate is either:
FR-60 9 Mbps* 720 x 480
FR-155 ~3 Mbps 352 x 480

Not close to your recommended bitrate of 15-20mbps MPEG;

A. So I'm confused, if you do recommend to use the DR-M10 for family stuff at all, and if so, at which of the above bitrates.

B. How do you get 15-20mbps MPEG bitrate? Is it post-work transcoding from lossless?

C. And if it is by SW transcoding, why bother with MPEG unless it's authored on actual DVD or bluray disc?
(correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't family video more noisy, which h.264 handles better than mpeg in that regard?)
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  #4  
07-29-2019, 04:23 AM
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Superbit for DVD-Video is about 5mbps for 352x480
Or 9mbps for 720x480
15mbps is sub-broadcast/BD specs, not DVD-Video. Much better, less artifacts. But not DVD.

Why bother? Archival size, playability on LAN streams. 15mbps better than both DVD-Video and lossless for this purpose.

H.264 usually blurs too much. It also handles interlace poorly. Not better.

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  #5  
07-29-2019, 05:11 AM
ido2 ido2 is offline
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I still did not understand if you do recommend to use the DR-M10 for family stuff ?

Forgive my ignorance, but does the MR-M10 support Superbit 5mbps for 352x480, or just 9mbps for 720x480 ? I don't see 15Mbps anywhere too. So I don't understand which mode you recommend to use; or skip DVD recording altogether.


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Why bother? Archival size, playability on LAN streams. 15mbps better than both DVD-Video and lossless for this purpose.
Why bother with what exactly ?
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  #6  
07-29-2019, 05:27 AM
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FR160 on JVC LSI is about 5mbps.
XP mode is about 9mbps.
No DVD recorders use 15mbps because 15mbps is beyond DVD bitrates.

Q: Why bother with MPEG?
A: Archival size, playability on LAN streams. 15mbps better than both DVD-Video and lossless for this purpose.

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  #7  
07-29-2019, 05:42 AM
ido2 ido2 is offline
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Much clear now.

But last but not least, use the DR-M10 for family stuff @ XP mode / 9mbps ?
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  #8  
07-29-2019, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ido2 View Post
Much clear now.
But last but not least, use the DR-M10 for family stuff @ XP mode / 9mbps ?
With VHS, I make choices for logistics reasons.
- If under 1 hours of content (TC30 tapes, for example), then XP 1-hour.
- If more than 1 hours, FR160 3-hour.

I don't like to stop in the middle of a tape playing.

For 6-hour EP tapes, I'll use my JVC HDD recorder, and still not stop playback, split the HDD recording for dumping to disc. (jwillis/ISOBuster, it's be so much easier if you guys would ever figure out the HDD for direct dump to computer!)

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  #9  
07-29-2019, 06:25 AM
ido2 ido2 is offline
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Cool.
So I'll get the DVD recorder, and the USB, and just compare the two.
Then see if I'm happy with keeping DVD for archival purposes.

Also, can't I use dual layer 8.5GB discs for >1hour at tapes?

- I think all my tapes are 1 hour. Haven't checked though.
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  #10  
07-29-2019, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ido2 View Post
Cool.
So I'll get the DVD recorder, and the USB, and just compare the two.
Then see if I'm happy with keeping DVD for archival purposes.
Also, can't I use dual layer 8.5GB discs for >1hour at tapes?
- I think all my tapes are 1 hour. Haven't checked though.
You need to be very wary of the DVD recorders on eBay. I just looked at eBay, and there are only two auctions that are not obvious junk. One is from a known reseller, with a known low bar for what "works" (example: playing DVD for the "test", not recording, but realize a DVD drive can fail at recording while still playing). The other has no details whatsoever, a complete gamble. If I wanted something that I knew worked well, I'd stay away from that pair.

At least I grade my decks, refurb as needed, perform cleaning and maintenance, dismantle and customize as needed.

DVD recorders do not understand DVD+R DL media.

VHS-C, DV, and often Video8/Hi8 are just 1 hour.

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  #11  
07-29-2019, 09:19 AM
Bogilein Bogilein is offline
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My advice:

SVHS-VCR with TBC and a Pioneer DVD-recorder (DVR540,545,550,555,560,lx60,lx61,lx70d) or a Sony DVD-recorder (RDR 870,970,1070,680,780,785,980,1080,790,890,990,1090 ).
With both players you can use the HQ+ Mode (15Mb/s). Unfortunately you can't record the the hq+ files to a DVD, but with the new IsoBuster you can easily copy the files to your pc. Then I would edit (crop, deinterlace if needed or ...) the mpg file with Selurs "Hybrid" to mp4/mkv.....
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