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12-15-2009, 10:24 PM
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I have some new videos written by MPEG Video Wizard (Womble), created using the standard 29.97 FPS rate. Both Womble and DGIndex confirm these new files are 29.97, but DVD Architect sees them as 29.37 and wants to force a re-encode to burn.

What might cause this to happen? The only thing I’m doing differently from past projects is working with VOB sources instead of MPEG-2 sources. However the parameters of the newly-created MPEG-2s are no different from any other DVD-compliant MPEG-2s I've created in the past.

Thanks in advance
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  #2  
12-15-2009, 11:44 PM
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Where do the VOB files come from? A retail DVD, a homemade DVD, or a DVD from a DVD recorder?

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  #3  
12-16-2009, 12:14 AM
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They're decrypted retail VOBs.
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  #4  
12-16-2009, 02:13 AM
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Hmmmm... and how did you rip the discs? Retail DVD often have more than simple audio/video streams in the VOB, which confuses a lot of software.

Consider demuxing the VOB file in TMPGEnc Plus, doing the standard non-simple demux. Separately select and demux the audio and video stream you want.

This is one safe method to properly extract the audio and video from a retail DVD: http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/video/edit-dvd.htm
There are more methods, I just have not documented them yet. This one does involve freeware, at least.

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  #5  
12-16-2009, 12:56 PM
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In the past, I would first create compliant MPEG-2s out of the VOBs using VOB2MPG, and then do my editing on those to create the final file.

Here I just ripped the VOBs with DVD Fab Decrypter and used them straight to write the final file. Womble has no trouble working with VOBs so I thought I'd try skipping the VOB2MPG step; perhaps I can't. Since you say retail VOBs have extra material, I suspect thatís the problem. Iím going to do the same thing with a homemade VOB and see if I have the same trouble.

Either way, these VOBs don't work properly so I'll probably go back to what I was doing before (which worked perfectly). Iíll post back with an update on the homemade disc. Thanks Admin!
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  #6  
12-30-2009, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reading Bug View Post
I have some new videos written by MPEG Video Wizard (Womble), created using the standard 29.97 FPS rate. Both Womble and DGIndex confirm these new files are 29.97, but DVD Architect sees them as 29.37 and wants to force a re-encode to burn.
I'm finally getting back to this issue and want to correct myself: Architect sees these files as 23.97 FPS, not 29.37.
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  #7  
12-30-2009, 08:20 PM
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Everything with the homemade disc is fine. However, I have new/more developed problems…

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reading Bug View Post
In the past, I would first create compliant MPEG-2s out of the VOBs using VOB2MPG, and then do my editing on those to create the final file...

...Either way, these VOBs don't work properly so I'll probably go back to what I was doing before (which worked perfectly).
I should have knocked on wood.

I haven't yet returned to my first disc, but tried my old method on a second, unrelated retail disc. Several VOB2MPG-created files have been made from the content. I've created one final edit out of one VOB2MPG. Both files are being seen by Architect as 23.97 FPS. However, the other VOB2MPGs (from the same disc) are being seen by Architect as 29.97 FPS. Why is this happening?

Could it be there is so much info on this disc, it confuses Architect even when some (but apparently not all) VOBs have been written back to MPEG-2? What might I do about this?

I opened the final edit with DGIndex and it sees it as 29.970030 FPS, just like my first problem. This confirms Womble worked correctly. However, DGIndex sees this new edit as both progressive and interlaced! The info box rapidly shuffles between the two as the video plays. Why would it do this?

I’ve looked at some of your advice regarding muxing/demuxing, Admin, but would really love to solve this without first needing to learn new methods. Besides, since I’m repairing the audio in an already-separate stream and matching it to the video, I’d like to leave it as is. Thanks!
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  #8  
12-30-2009, 08:33 PM
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Ah, that made a BIG DIFFERENCE! 23.976 fps is "24 frames" (NTSC with pulldown, internally 29.97). That's compliant NTSC video, and should author correctly in good authoring software. DVDWS2, for example -- or even TDA/TAW -- no problems.

Some software sees the "internally 29.97" and is "NTSC stupid", meaning it only shows 29.97 for anything NTSC --- even when it's 23.976, which is valid NTSC, too.

Did anything re-encode between the 23.976 source and the supposed 29.97 files? I haven't used DGIndex in probably 5-6 now, no need for it (not for me, anyway).

What does Gspot think? What about Restream?

I hate learning new methods too --- but I think your older method is actually more complex. Redoing the audio repair work would not be fun. (Did you take notes? I started doing that, for such very reasons! Yuck.)

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  #9  
12-30-2009, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Some software sees the "internally 29.97" and is "NTSC stupid", meaning it only shows 29.97 for anything NTSC --- even when it's 23.976, which is valid NTSC, too.
If Architect forces a re-encode under 23.976, won't it affect the video quality? Or are you saying, since it's valid NTSC, it's within range and won't be noticable? I always thought it had to be perfect all the way through.

Quote:
Did anything re-encode between the 23.976 source and the supposed 29.97 files? I haven't used DGIndex in probably 5-6 now, no need for it (not for me, anyway).
Nothing does or wants to re-encode at any stage until Architect. I really only use DGIndex to quickly ID VOBs and check parameters. Which is why this progressive/interlaced thing is so weird. Do you think it's anything to worry about?

Quote:
What does Gspot think? What about Restream?
You got me

Quote:
I hate learning new methods too --- but I think your older method is actually more complex. Redoing the audio repair work would not be fun. (Did you take notes? I started doing that, for such very reasons! Yuck.)
Well, I haven't really taken written notes. But I've learned what sounds good and what doesn't, and recently solved a very irritating noise problem with some good sound proofing in my workstation. So I'm very happy about that!

This method might be more complex (it's certainly more time consuming), but nothing else satisfies my sensitive ears. Muxing/demuxing always appears to result in audio loss
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  #10  
12-30-2009, 09:51 PM
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The 23.976 is valid and should not be re-encode. If it forces a re-encode, you need to switch authoring software. If nothing else, get a trial download of TAW and see what it does: http://edge.affiliateshop.com/public...7389&BID=12242
It works fully functional for however many days. Long enough to drop in an MPEG, author a menu-less dis, just for testing. TAW will warn you if the MPEG is out of spec for some reason, warn before encoding.

The mux/demux process is just splitting streams -- there's not any affect on sound or image quality, assuming it really is JUST a mux/demux, not a hidden re-encode. Of course, that would take a LONG TIME, and you'd know if it was re-encoding.

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  #11  
12-30-2009, 10:19 PM
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Thanks Admin. And here I thought Architect was flexible
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  #12  
12-30-2009, 10:55 PM
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Architect pissed me off back at version 2. That was a long time ago, but I just never went back. A lot of people use it, like it, but it's not my preference.

I don't really like Vegas either. I could do everything I wanted -- without hassle -- in DVDWS2 or DVDSP on Mac.

I don't like DVD-Lab either.

I have a license on one of the recent Architects, but it's not even installed right now. I'll add it to the dev list of things that need to be tested and guide-added to the site this coming year. Doesn't help you NOW, but maybe some months from now it will.

You can always try the trial of DVDWS2, although it does not do AC3. (Only full legal registered version does -- even the hacked full version won't do AC3, which nobody should use anyway -- but I ALWAYS mention it, just in case somebody is trying to pirate.)

It would, at least, get you an authored project with nice menus. If you like it, it's only $99 ---- (I hate saying "only", but compared to software in general, it's cheap)

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  #13  
12-30-2009, 11:24 PM
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Thanks, I noticed that in your link. $99 does sound pretty appealing...
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  #14  
12-31-2009, 12:22 AM
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I keep forgetting you're on Mac. DVDWS2 is Windows. Then again ... why not install Windows XP inside Parallels?

You can get Parallels for under $70 at Amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.ht...reative=390957

I use DVD Studio Pro on Mac --- quite a few more dollars there. You can network virtual "drives", so that it processed from and to the main Mac hard drive/folders.

Probably half of all my Mac use was inside Parallels, because there's so many things just not on Mac (or not as good, for Mac versions).

Sadly, there's not much in the way of DVD authoring software for Mac. Pros all use DVDSP, amateurs all use iDVD, and your choices more or less end there. Yeah, there are some other things here and there, but it's mostly just crapware/limitware.

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12-31-2009, 01:24 PM
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I actually do run XP on a virtual machine with VMWare. What else would it be if not Parallels, right?

I sometimes forget I have no platform limits with a virtual machine, despite using it all the time! I'll definitely consider one of those options. Thanks again Admin.
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  #16  
12-31-2009, 01:39 PM
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Yep, VMWare Fusion is the other one. There's actually several of them now, but I always go back to Parallels. They all work, more or less.

Definitely boot up XP and give DVDWS2 a run.

The trial is available at http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satelli...=1204918457206 (MP2+WAV only, no AC3 support)

But buy it for only $99 from this link: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...3167/KBID/4166
That's the boxed version, better to have the actual install DVD.

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