How to remove subtitles from video? (DVD subtitles problem)

[manthing]

that subject topic is actually a bit misleading. let me explain...
i have a retail dvd. it has "2 subtitles". sort of.
one of the subtitles is selected from the main menu and can be turned on and off.
this is the standard type of subtitle that we're all familiar with.
now the other subtitle, automatically comes on for a section of the movie and then turns off afterwards.

there is no menu option for this. it just... happens.
these subtitles are not hardcoded as i've demuxed the movie and inspected the video file.
so, how are these subtitles appearing? and how do i turn them off?

sure, i can re-author a new dvd without the subtitles. but i want a simpler / quicker option than doing this.
anyone have any ideas?

[admin]

This is more often an issue with your DVD player -- it's set to automatically play subtitles of a specific language. Verify that your player's subtitle settings are OFF. For many players, you can do this with no disc in the unit, and then access the setup menu. A few players are weird, and require a disc be present in order to access the DVD player setup.

[manthing]

is this true for software movie players as well? like totalmedia theatre?
and if so, what is the setting to turn it off?
or is there some "code" in the makeup of the dvd that can be changed?

i know how to permanently disable the subtitles via pcgedit. but i don't desire that.

[admin]

It's true of any DVD player -- be it computer software or standalone hardware. Look under the player setup (or Options, Preferences, Settings, etc -- whatever lingo the manufacturer or programmer has chosen to use). Confirm that subtitles are OFF, and not set to a specific language. There may be more advanced settings for software, too, not found in more basic standalone hardware.

[manthing]

ok, let me ask the question a different way... how would i track the subtitles via pgcedit?
when i use pgcedit, and highlight the main movie, and then choose "Domain Stream Attributes" - i only see 1 subpic.
this subpic is the one that can be turned on and off from the main menu.
if i disable this subpic, then subtitles are fully gone.
so how does the dvd structure / code signal the dvd player to switch the subtitles on and off for that specific segment of the movie?
how can i single step the movie playback and see exactly what's happening?

[manthing]

just read that each individual subpic has its own flag and this flag can be set to "normal" or "forced".

here's a quick explanation: "A 'Forced Start' command can be used instead, in which case the subtitles are displayed even if the subtitles are turned off in the player. During playback forced subtitles are only shown if the stream is selected. In other words, if no stream is selected, the forced subtitles will not be shown. If the stream is selected but turned off, then only forced subtitles will be shown in that stream. If the stream is selected and turned on, all subtitles will be shown."

so there we have it.
this is what's happening in my case.

if i want to change things, i can either learn some PGC commands and change the existing dvd or re-author a new dvd.

case closed.

[admin]

Yep, you beat me to it.

I'd almost have to see an ISO of the DVD itself. DVD authoring can vary quite a bit, and not every person or software does things the same way. Sometimes it can be hard to see exactly where an action is taking place within the DVD nav structures.

[manthing]

ok - i still have problems.

i have tried a number of different PGC commands and using PGCEdit but to no avail. the "forced" subpic still pop-up.
so, i think i'll have to re-author. but i may have problems doing this. let me explain...

the dvd uses partially "normal" subpics and some "forced" subpics. this sits nicely alongside the audio that comes with the movie.
however, i want to add another audio - original broadcast audio. and i don't want subtitles at all for this.
so how do i author a 1 video file + 2 audio files + 1 subpic file (but only for 1 audio) and the subpic is as is - ie with normal & forced parts?
is this possible? and if so - how?

thanks.

[manthing]

ok, after 10 million attempts, i've found a method of getting what i want.

i have 1 video.
2 audios - audA & audB.
2 subpics - subA & subB.

then i use PGC commands to link audA with subA & audB with subB.
subA has the mix of normal & forced subpics.
subB only has normal subpics.
this gives me the exact result i want.
perhaps there are other ways and one of you can advise me.

case closed - this time definitely!

[admin]

You always make me think.

And you're as bad as I am, when it comes to asking for help, only to keep at it and find the answers on your own before the other person has time to respond. I'm guilty of that when it comes to writing PHP or doing Linux server administration. "Hey, how do I do this?" and 20 minutes later "Nevermind, I figured it out, thanks." The person on the other end of my emails and tech support tickets must think I'm eccentric, nuts or both.

Getting back to your issue: KISS (as in keep it simple, stupid -- not rock and roll all night).

Your solution was very KISS: One video + 2 sub options + 2 audio options.

I don't know that I could improve on that, outside of simply creating two separate discs, for two separate versions of the movie. And honestly, that's probably what I would have done. Your mix of audio and subs is generally more work than I want to put into authoring (at least for my own personal projects -- something like this is pretty much never requested by clients).

Glad you figured it out, and thanks for sharing your solution on the forum. (Instead of just leaving us hanging, only able to guess about whether you solved the problem or not. This helps us build this site as a true FAQ to digital video topics. So thanks.)

[manthing]

hey no probs. may help somebody else pulling their hair out!
for the sake of further understanding, is there a way to have no subtitle stream? via some PGC command.
as opposed to subtitle stream 0 (streams always start with 0) turned off - which actually allows the forced subtitle flagged bits to still appear.
if there is, then that is possible a better solution than having 2 subtitle streams.

[manthing]

FYI...
1) used pgcdemux to get the original audio + video + subtitles (in sup form) + chapters.
2) used dvdsubedit to look through the subtitles to see the "forced" sections and change them to normal. saved it as a separate subtitle file.
3) used pgcedit to save a bitmap of the still menu from original dvd.
4) used photoshop to add another menu choice - for the 2nd audio.
5) used muxman to create a new dvd with my new stuff.
6) used pgcedit to create a new button to select the new audio.
7) used vobblanker to "merge" the new dvd to the original - so that the i can use the chapter menu it had.

i think that's what i did. i'll try and whip up a diy doc one of these days.

[manthing]

i managed to get the invisble button issue i raised in an earlier post. so i've managed to do everything i set out to do.
it has been a long process. a bit frustrating. but i've learnt a bit as well.
looking back, i should have just authored a new dvd than all the mickey-mousing around that i did do.
never mind - lesson learnt for next time.

i'm attaching a how-to doc. it is a bit rough & ready.
it will give you a lot of detail about how i went about things.
but it won't give you every single thing you'll encounter in your own projects. have fun.

[Atthead]

manthing,

thank you for solving the invisible menu buttons highlights for me, I was not able to find a solution anywhere else!

Great DOC! ^^

[manthing]

atthead - no problemo. glad to help out dFAQ members. you can send me a virtual crate of beers!
just like most things in life, its the frustration of not knowing how to do the task that's the killer.
that and the non-availability of simple tools to help us out.

ah well, maybe tomorrow things will get better/easier...