What frame rate is this? Every frame duped?

[BrainRotTrash]

Hi!

Hoping this might be simple for you guys to figure out. I have some old raw DV footage that was captured quite a while back from a Digital8 tape, but it appears every other frame is duplicated.

I'm trying to edit it in Final Cut Pro (I'm on a Mac), but can't figure out what to do to get rid of the duplicated frames. I've tried all custom frame rates it lets you try and none get ride of duplicated frames. Any clue what is up with these files? Here is the mediainfo from the file:

Format                                   : MPEG-4
Commercial name                          : DVCPRO
Format profile                           : QuickTime
Codec ID                                 : qt   0000.00 (qt  )
File size                                : 762 MiB
Duration                                 : 3 min 29 s
Overall bit rate                         : 30.4 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 29.970 FPS
Recorded date                            : 2005-10-28 21:09:44.000
Encoded date                             : 2012-03-06 23:04:08 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2012-03-06 23:07:38 UTC
Writing library                          : Apple QuickTime
com.apple.proapps.modelname              : DCR-TRV110
com.apple.proapps.cameraID               : 0x80046010176bec8
com.apple.proapps.cameraName             :  DCR-TRV110
com.apple.proapps.clipID                 : 2D85CD65-97A3-48B5-B616-CBB479403C60
com.apple.proapps.ingestDate.description : 2012-03-06 23:04:08 +0000
com.apple.proapps.originalFormat         : DV/DVCPRO - NTSC (16:9)
com.apple.proapps.mediaRate              : 30.000
com.apple.proapps.timecodeFormat         : Drop
com.apple.quicktime.creationdate         : 2005-10-28T21:09:44-0400
com.apple.quicktime.make                 : Apple
com.apple.quicktime.model                : MacBookPro8,2
com.apple.quicktime.software             : Mac OS X 10.7.3 (11D50)

Video
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : DV
Commercial name                          : DVCPRO
Codec ID                                 : dvc 
Duration                                 : 3 min 29 s
Source duration                          : 3 min 30 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 24.4 Mb/s
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Clean aperture width                     : 704 pixels
Height                                   : 480 pixels
Clean aperture height                    : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Original display aspect ratio            : 16:9
Clean aperture display aspect ratio      : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Original frame rate                      : 29.970 (29970/1000) FPS
Standard                                 : NTSC
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:1:1
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Interlaced
Scan type, store method                  : Interleaved fields
Scan order                               : Bottom Field First
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 2.357
Time code of first frame                 : 00:08:40;22
Time code source                         : Subcode time code
Stream size                              : 720 MiB (94%)
Source stream size                       : 720 MiB (95%)
Title                                    : Core Media Video
Encoding settings                        : ae mode=full automatic / wb mode=automatic / white balance= / fcm=manual focus
Encoded date                             : 2012-03-06 23:04:08 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2012-03-06 23:07:38 UTC
Color primaries                          : BT.601 NTSC
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.601

Audio #1
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Little / Signed
Codec ID                                 : sowt
Duration                                 : 3 min 29 s
Source duration                          : 3 min 29 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Stream size                              : 38.4 MiB (5%)
Source stream size                       : 38.4 MiB (5%)
Title                                    : Core Media Audio
Encoded date                             : 2012-03-06 23:04:08 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2012-03-06 23:07:38 UTC

Audio #2
ID                                       : 2-0
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Big / Signed
Muxing mode                              : DV
Muxing mode, more info                   : Muxed in Video #1
Duration                                 : 3 min 29 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Stream size                              : 38.4 MiB (5%)

Other
ID                                       : 3
Type                                     : Time code
Format                                   : QuickTime TC
Duration                                 : 3 min 29 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Frame rate                               : 30.000 FPS
Time code of first frame                 : 00:08:40;22
Time code of last frame                  : 00:12:10;20
Time code, stripped                      : No
Title                                    : Core Media Time Code
Default                                  : No
Encoded date                             : 2012-03-06 23:04:08 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2012-03-06 23:07:38 UTC

[latreche34]

Were they de-interlaced at some point of time, Maybe a bad de-interlacing job where fields are turned into frames by creating even lines from odd lines, I think it's called bob de-interlacing if I'm not mistaken. Without a full history of these files I'm afraid no one can help you, But do post a short sample maybe someone will have a clue.

[BrainRotTrash]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

Were they de-interlaced at some point of time, Maybe a bad de-interlacing job where fields are turned into frames by creating even lines from odd lines, I think it's called bob de-interlacing if I'm not mistaken. Without a full history of these files I'm afraid no one can help you, But do post a short sample maybe someone will have a clue.

Thanks for the idea!

I'm not sure of the specific camera that recorded it, but this is footage taken directly from a D8 tape that was given to me about 20ish years ago. The import was done a while back though, most likely using iMovie? It's footage from some basement gig.

Here is a link to a short clip (Careful, the audio is LOUD)... maybe someone knows how to fix it properly:
https://we.tl/t-8Y7C5LZt5Dn

[latreche34]

I'm afraid there is no magical fix for this, You can use some script that does some AI frame temporal interpolation to smooth out the jerkiness but half of the video information is lost forever, you can't get it back. If you still have the tape you can redo it properly on a PC platform, Mac was never intended for this kind of work.

[BrainRotTrash]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

I'm afraid there is no magical fix for this, You can use some script that does some AI frame temporal interpolation to smooth out the jerkiness but half of the video information is lost forever, you can't get it back. If you still have the tape you can redo it properly on a PC platform, Mac was never intended for this kind of work.

Big bummer to hear this.

I do indeed still have the tape, and I just tried importing it again using a TRV130 w/ firewire to my MacBook Pro to Final Cut X and also tried with Quicktime 7 Pro, both imports show the same doubled frames.

Do you suspect the tape has the other frames, and my Mac is just ignoring them? What kind of things would you try on a PC to import this differently?

[lordsmurf]

I'm thinking it was shot that way.

[latreche34]

Me too, I started to think the original material is progressive at half the legal frame rate of NTSC.

[BrainRotTrash]

Are there camcorders that film like this? I’m trying to figure out why this happened to this footage in the first place..

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrainRotTrash

Are there camcorders that film like this? I’m trying to figure out why this happened to this footage in the first place..

Yes, and many other res/framerates. SLR cameras, camcorders, phones, etc. Many codecs, but generally DV, MJPEG, H.264, few others.

[latreche34]

The original material must have been 24p and mastered into DV 30i, or shot with a semi pro DV camcorder that had the option 24p in a scheme called progressive segmented frame (PsF), Basically it records interlaced fields from a progressive frame, The best thing you can really do is leave alone in my opinion.

[BrainRotTrash]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

The original material must have been 24p and mastered into DV 30i, or shot with a semi pro DV camcorder that had the option 24p in a scheme called progressive segmented frame (PsF), Basically it records interlaced fields from a progressive frame, The best thing you can really do is leave alone in my opinion.

Thank you all for your insight, I appreciate it! Now I know that it just is what it is and to move onto other things. Thanks again!!

[BW37]

Its a stretch, but...

I don't know if there were any D8 camcorders that recorded in a "progressive" mode into the interlaced DV format, but I know there were miniDV camcorders that did. I think (not really sure) this could have given the effect you are seeing. Once recorded onto a miniDV tape the DV "file" could have been directly transferred to a D8 tape, digital to digital via direct firewire/i-Link/IEEE1394 cable.

Here's a brochure for one such miniDV camcorder:

[BrainRotTrash]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BW37

Its a stretch, but...

I don't know if there were any D8 camcorders that recorded in a "progressive" mode into the interlaced DV format, but I know there were miniDV camcorders that did. I think (not really sure) this could have given the effect you are seeing. Once recorded onto a miniDV tape the DV "file" could have been directly transferred to a D8 tape, digital to digital via direct firewire/i-Link/IEEE1394 cable.

Here's a brochure for one such miniDV camcorder:

Ya know, maybe you’re onto something! I would be surprised if the guy who gave me this tape gave me his master… maybe he did a transfer like that for me? He forgot he even gave me a tape when I asked him if he still had any old tapes around (he does not, said he trashed them, sadly)