SoundForge problem

Superstar · #1 12-11-2009, 05:41 PM

I'm having a problem with Soundforge. When I'm going thru my audio restoration steps, saving the audio as wav in goldwave, then opening it in SF, when I go to open it in SF an error msg comes up that says this is an unsupported file format..and it won't open...I do all my audio that way, and some audio does this..and some opens just fine..why is it doing this and how can I fix it?

admin · #2 12-11-2009, 06:46 PM

You've converting to a WAV files that is larger than 2GB, and that's not supported. You'll have to chop it into smaller chunks before it gets to Goldwave. This generally only happens when you have 3 hours or more in a single file.

Superstar · #3 12-11-2009, 08:19 PM

Yeah, you're right..the videos are longer than 3 hrs by a little bit. I assume I'd chop them up in Womble? If I chop them up, how do I make them one complete file again after I restore each chopped piece?
Also....when restoring in SF you said you start with hiss cut 0 and work your way up withe hiss cuts..I've found that the audio sounds better with hiss cut 0, and the other hiss cuts makes it sound lower..should I mostly just stick with 0, or which ones do you use the most?

admin · #4 12-11-2009, 11:16 PM

Womble splits. Any of them do this fine.

Womble MPEG Video Wizard DVD can re-merge and encode to AC3, too. I stopped use the plain version of Womble MPEG Video Wizard a month or two ago, when Womble agave away the DVD version for free that one day thorugh giveawayoftheday.com.

Restoring audio is about making it better. One filter may fix one issue, but add a new one. This is why you start to run multiple filters. After the hiss is removed, and the tone is lowered, you can run a high restore filter (either Paragraphic EQ or Graphic EQ versions) to compensate. Restoring is about improving the overall experience.

I do what sounds best. Sometimes that is HIss Cut 0, sometimes that is Hiss Cut 2 followed by a High Restore. Sometimes (and more often, for me) it's something far more complex involving 3-4 programs.

Superstar · #5 12-13-2009, 10:38 PM

I'm kinda confused about this, because I've never done it before. Splitting an audio file that is more than 3 hrs. I'm confused about how do I import it all as 1 file into DVDWorkshop.
So I bring the original into womble (only audio?) split it I'm guessing into 2 files? Take it into Goldwave, save both as wav, then restore them both in SF, then make them AC3 in TMPEG, right?
After I do all of that, how do I re-merge it into 1 file again to bring into workshop?

admin · #6 12-14-2009, 01:51 AM

Steps, in order (using software you have):

Cut up video in parts of about 2 hours or less, in Womble MPEG-VCR or Womble MPEG Video Wizard.
Demux in TMPGEnc Plus. You'll have M2V for video, and audio files.
Convert audio to WAVs in whatever (Goldwave is fine)
Restore audio, save restored audio as new WAVs
Open Womble MPEG Video Wizard (not MPEG-VCR). Drop M2V on video timeline, drop audio in audio timeline. Save as one new long-again MPG file.
Author with MPG file in Ulead DVDWS2.

That's it. Very easy.

There are many ways to do this, but all involve several steps, due to the limitation of 2GB put onto WAV files. This is a now-stupid leftover from audio processing limitations from a decade or two ago. A slight nuisance, yes -- absolutely, but one we just have to live with, I'm afraid.

Superstar · #7 12-14-2009, 03:26 PM

Thanks for the advice.
"After the hiss is removed, and the tone is lowered, you can run a high restore filter"
When you said when the tone is lowered, is that also done with Hiss Cut 0, or would I use another filter for that? Taking your advice from an earlier post, I now always start with Hiss Cut 0. I've found using just that on master copy videos ends up sounding the best..a lot of those hiss cuts sounds pretty similiar, but i've also noticed the other hiss cuts make it sound lower than hiss cut 0..what do you suggest with that?

admin · #8 12-14-2009, 05:21 PM

If you find that the HIss Cut 0 preset works best, then sure, use that one. I generally start off with Hiss Cut 2, and then move back to 1 and 0, just to compare amount of hiss removed, versus amount of true audio altered (if any).

In some cases, I find the numbered Hiss Cuts to be inferior, I'll look at some of the other hiss-removing presets.

Don't be tempted to leave hiss, just because the sound gets a slightly lower tonal quality. Cut out a majority or all of the hiss, and then go try some of the High Restore presets next -- especially the pair that maintains hiss removal.

Then again, using Hiss Cut 0 and nothing else might be fine. It really depends on what you're hearing.

All I know is that I cannot enjoy a video if I hear SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS while trying to watch it. Or any other noise. I'd rather eject it and watch another DVD.

Superstar · #9 12-14-2009, 09:56 PM

So, you always start off with Hiss Cut 2 and then go 1, and then 0....because before you told me you always start off with 0...so I'm kinda confused...
You also mentioned some of the Hiss Cuts are inferior, what are some of the others that you use? I also always use Paragraphic EQ, because that was what was suggested in the SF guide...should I stick with that one?

admin · #10 12-14-2009, 10:16 PM

You just need to listen to the various presets in the preview, and hear what it does. Nothing I can say will ever be as effective as listening to the changes yourself. All of the hiss removal done in SoundForge is done through the paragraphic EQ. There are not any other built-in tools** or presets that do de-hiss out of the box.

**NOTE: The newer SoundForge 9 (both Pro and Studio) has an "Audio Restoration" tool, but that's far more complicated than you're ready for right now. I doubt you'll need it anyway. It is best used for other issues, not hiss.

Superstar · #11 12-14-2009, 10:24 PM

I'm using SoundForge 6...
On every video that I restore the audio for, hiss cut 0 sounds the best on everything quite honestly, but I'll try what you said about using 2, 1 then 0 then high restore if needed (I also noticed that high restore B seems to sound the best)

admin · #12 12-14-2009, 10:42 PM

Restoring audio and video is very much an art. Like a fine photographer, you follow technical rules as close as possible, deviating when it suits the best interests of the piece. The rules are guides to get you where you need to be.

Of course, not all art is the same. If you approach it like a Picasso, with all kinds of weird stuff, then you did it wrong. There's nothing technical there, just energy vomited onto canvas. That's fine for what it is, but that style of art doesn't work here. Don't confuse the two!

... it sounds like you're doing everything as you should. You're following the rules laid down for you, and then using your ears as guides for making the proper selections.

Superstar · #13 12-15-2009, 01:04 PM

I agree, it is a fine line with the audio restoration, a lot of filters sound almost identical so it can be very hard to distinguish the best sounds.
Honestly, I do think I'm ready to try another program, or advance to some other stuff that you've referred to, I've restored the audio for about 30 videos or so now, and I think I have the basic understanding to advance to other things that you talk about...how would I do that?
Also...I know it's about what sounds best..but when it comes to the high restore filters, which ones do you use the most?

Superstar · #14 12-15-2009, 01:09 PM

Follow up q to my last post, does High Restore E and F since they are both Hiss Cut Maintained, do they go well with Hiss Cut 2, 1, & 0?
I've found sometimes they sound good and sometimes they don't...for example, the audio I'm restoring now, I did Hiss Cut 2, 1, then 0, then I did High Restore E...High Restore F didn't sound as good to me, but generally are those 2 maybe the best to use in conjunction with the Hiss Cut filters that you told me to start with?

admin · #15 12-15-2009, 05:26 PM

There is really no right or wrong answer on the High Restores. Just keep listening. Just be aware some of them are very strong, in the latter end of the presets, written for severely muffled audio off old pre-1950s home audio recordings (old time radio, for example).

Sometimes I use the "enhance mono" Graphic EQ presets, too, to restore tonal quality to older dehissed VHS audio.

As far as more methods beyond SoundForge, see some of the other recent posts in this forum: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/foru...mprove-17.html
There are some examples of using Audacity and GoldWave. And I've covered GoldWave usage several times in past posts. Reading those would be a good start, instead of re-explaining it again. Come back when you have some specific questions, or want to share specific samples.

Superstar · #16 12-15-2009, 09:45 PM

I noticed on the DVD that I just made, there was I guess you can call it maybe a noticeable loud hum type sound...and that wasn't on the vhs video..I used the hiss cut 2, 1, 0 on that video, so obviously since it wasn't on the original video, one of the filters that I used caused it...but when I was doing the preview of each filter before I used it, the sound wasn't there. What causes that constant humming type sound, and how can I get rid of that?

admin · #17 12-15-2009, 09:51 PM

See some of the information I've been writing here in recent days: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...n-up-1852.html

What has happened is not that Sound Forge added hum -- no -- but rather so much harsh noise has now been removed, that you're now able to hear lesser audio flaws. This is not uncommon.

To remove hum, I generally run a Remove Bass Grumble paragraphic EQ in Sound Forge, or try to remove it completely with GoldWave or Audacity.

Superstar · #18 12-15-2009, 10:31 PM

But like I said..when I was doing the preview with each filter, the hum never appeared there, so I can't remove it if I don't know it's going to be there...is there anything I can do to find out if it'll be there?