TBC-1000 effects on composite signal

[jonasz]

So I'm finally continuing with my (long overdue) video capturing. I've got two sources of tapes, VHS and VCC/V2000 (and even some Betamax, but those are pre-recorded tapes I don't really care about). I was planning on recording all tapes using a JVC DR-M10, so they can be screened afterwards without any hassle / wearing them out, and conclusively capture the really valuable material using an ATI AIW. The chain for VCC tapes:

Philips VR2024 / Philips VR2334 > Datavideo TBC-1000 > ATI AIW / JVC DR-M10

Unfortunately VCC/V2000 recorders never supported S-Video output, as they were gone by 1988. It apparently does process Y/C signals separately, but apart from this post (http://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?t=444&p=14555) there's no information to be found. This leaves only composite to work with, and this is where the TBC-1000 acts up.

First, to rule out other influences, the ATI AIW directly connected to the JVC DR-M10 containing a PAL test DVD. Some noise around the colored boxes and somewhat less sharp, but overall a nice result, not much worse compared to the better S-Video output pictured below it.




Now with the TBC in the chain, using composite in and out. It doesn't really show properly in the screenshot, but a lot of noise has appeared, the image is less sharp and even the colors (yellow) seem off.



Lastly the TBC using the S-Video output (with CVS input). It still has the noise, but the colors and sharpness do not seem to be affected now.



I also did this same series of test with a S-VHS setup using S-Video. The results were much better (no noise, no loss of sharpness) but the image gets saturated more and more by each piece of equipment. If there's interest I can share those results too.

Now I know about the TBC-1000 "bypass" (for S-Video), but can anyone confirm this would fix the problems above? And/or will it fix the ever increasing saturation, as the TBC-1000 seems to be the biggest offender here too?

Also before sounding too negative, apart from the aforementioned issues, I do have to say I'm pleased with it so far and don't regret buying it at all.

[msgohan]

If you use one of the Panasonic DVD recorders that does line TBC, they also contain a 3D comb filter so you can avoid most of the rainbowing and dot crawl.

Or better yet, if you're brave, it's probably possible to do as suggested in the LDDB thread and modify a deck to output S-Video. I'm not a soldering guy, myself.

[kpmedia]

Converting the TBC-1000 to an internal or external TBC-100 does work.

[jonasz]

I got around making the bypass and unfortunately I have to say that it doesn't have any effect. Both the (CVS) input and output part were bypassed. Equal amount of noise, same washed out yellow and no difference in saturation / sharpness.

So the issue seems to be solely related to the TBC-100. Does anyone have an idea what might cause this? It's the noise that bugs me the most.

[NJRoadfan]

Do you have any JVC or Panasonic SVHS VCRs laying around? You can use them as a comb filter in a pinch, just run the composite into the VCR, set the VCR output to that input and connect the S-Video output to the TBC-1000. At least in the NTSC models, both the JVC Digipure models and the Panasonic AG-1980 have 3D Adaptive comb filtering on their composite inputs.

[jonasz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJRoadfan

Do you have any JVC or Panasonic SVHS VCRs laying around? You can use them as a comb filter in a pinch, just run the composite into the VCR, set the VCR output to that input and connect the S-Video output to the TBC-1000. At least in the NTSC models, both the JVC Digipure models and the Panasonic AG-1980 have 3D Adaptive comb filtering on their composite inputs.

Yes, I use an S-VHS Philips VR1100 (PAL) for my VHS tapes, which is a rebadged JVC, although I'm not sure which exact model it's based on. I tried your suggestion and it works perfectly! The output seems to look even a bit sharper than when directly connected via composite, see screenshot. Thank you very much!

cvs-svhs-tbc-svid.png

[lordsmurf]

I tend to wonder how the AVT-8710 would compare against the TBC-100/1000. It does process video very differently. Sometimes the DataVideo is better, sometimes the Cypress is better.

The problem, of course, is finding a flawless green/black AVT-8710, as the newer ones have chip flaws.