Recommended Panasonic VHS decks

three_jeeps · #1 05-12-2016, 02:23 PM

I was reading through the the VHS buying guide:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...ing-guide.html

and have a few questions. In a previous inquiry, it was recommended that I use (in pass through mode) a panasonic DMR-ES10 or ES15 in conjunction with my TBC-1000.

When looking at the buying guide, those models don't make it on the 'recommendation' list. I am wondering why??

Would a, AG-1970P, for example, be a better option over the ES-1x?
Of the ES-xx, which one would be a better option? -10, -15, -20? or other?
THanks
J

sanlyn · #2 05-12-2016, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by three_jeeps

I was reading through the the VHS buying guide:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...ing-guide.html

and have a few questions. In a previous inquiry, it was recommended that I use (in pass through mode) a panasonic DMR-ES10 or ES15 in conjunction with my TBC-1000.

When looking at the buying guide, those models don't make it on the 'recommendation' list. I am wondering why??

The DMR-ES10 and ES15 are not VCR's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by three_jeeps

Would a, AG-1970P, for example, be a better option over the ES-1x?
Of the ES-xx, which one would be a better option? -10, -15, -20? or other?

The AG-1970P is an OK player but has a weak built-in line sync tbc. To get line tbc functionality, use the ES10 or ES15 for line-level tbc pass-thru. Follow that in the capture chain with your TBC-1000, which is a frame-level tbc. The DMR-ES20 has a weak line tbc circuit, not recommended for pass-thru. If you use a vcr with a better line-level tbc built-in, you don't need a pass-thru device.
http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/3...hat-do-you-use

three_jeeps · #3 05-12-2016, 09:56 PM

Ohhh, I didn't realize they don't have VHS record capability. Thanks for pointing that out.

J

sanlyn · #4 05-13-2016, 09:23 AM

The ES10 and ES15 are DVD recorders/DVD players. They have fairly effective line-tbc and some frame sync capability. Their frame sync will not defeat macrovision the way a TBC-1000 or similar external frame tbc will. Either DVDR is used for its line-tbc capability if you are using a VCR that doesn't have a built-in line tbc. If you are capturing to lossless media with a non-tbc VCR the capture chain would look like this:

VCR --> ES10/ES15 pass thru --> TBC-1000 --> capture device

The ES10 has a somewhat stronger tbc than the ES15 and is the preferred unit, but both work OK. Most DVD recorders don't work for pass thru. Most of the very few newer units that can be used for pass thru are not very effective, making them useless for that purpose. The forum link mentioned earlier tested several units for use as pass thru.

three_jeeps · #5 05-13-2016, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanlyn

If you are capturing to lossless media with a non-tbc VCR the capture chain would look like this:

VCR --> ES10/ES15 pass thru --> TBC-1000 --> capture device

The ES10 has a somewhat stronger tbc than the ES15 and is the preferred unit, but both work OK.

OK, TY. I had quite a different connection/workflow path. Now that I realize the ES10 is strictly a DVR, the chaining you show makes a lot more sense. For some reason, I was equating the functionality of the ES10 to my LG - RC-199H (vcr-DVD combo).
So this raises the question of what other boxes would have the functionality of the ES10? and would they be worth considering?

I have 4 different VCRs to experiment with, ranging from an older panasonic (1980ish) that has manual tracking adjustment, a sharp unit that will play svhs tapes (of which I have a few), and the LG whos video out feed can be switched between the VCR or DVD, and has HDMI output (upconverted) as well as progressive scan out, and A/V out.
Thanks again for your insight.
J

sanlyn · #6 05-13-2016, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by three_jeeps

So this raises the question of what other boxes would have the functionality of the ES10? and would they be worth considering?

There are a couple of rare units that have been used in the linked thread, but the ES10/15 are easy to find and affordable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by three_jeeps

I have 4 different VCRs to experiment with, ranging from an older panasonic (1980ish) that has manual tracking adjustment, a sharp unit that will play svhs tapes (of which I have a few), and the LG whos video out feed can be switched between the VCR or DVD, and has HDMI output (upconverted) as well as progressive scan out, and A/V out.

I have a similar Panasonic PV-S4670 circa 1996, whose image resembles that of the AG-1980 series but without tbc or noise reduction. Combo units have fairly decent DVD sections, but their VCR sections are junk.

There are HDMI capture devices. They don't record to lossless media, but to lossy final delivery formats that are unsuitable for restoration work. Upscalers also upscale analog defects. Once embedded as artifacts through lossy encoding and added compression artifacts, you're pretty much stuck with them. Analog tape is either interlaced or telecined and should remain that way, especially if you want formal DVD or HD/StandardDef BluRay or AVCHD. H.264 capture is inferior to lossless capture and your own encoding. If you want to get complicated with noisy, lossy analog tape captures, it's not something I'd recommend to my friends.

msgohan · #7 05-13-2016, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanlyn

There are HDMI capture devices. They don't record to lossless media, but to lossy final delivery formats

There are HDMI capture devices that do lossless.

I have 4 of them, and 1 external SSD recorder that does uncompressed or lossy intermediate.

sanlyn · #8 05-13-2016, 02:33 PM

Three_jeeps might want more detail. I was thinking of the usual HDPVR.

But the problem via hdMI is that the combo deck would be used, which doesn't have a quality VCR player. How to get line and frame tbc via HDMI? Not a problem for me because I don't intend to use this method for VHS capture. It's three-jeeps' question.

sanlyn · #9 05-13-2016, 09:57 PM

Okay, one HDMI device for lossless caps through VirtualDub with a lossless codec like UT Video would be here: https://www.startech.com/AV/Converte...-vga~USB3HDCAP. As msgohan is familiar with this device from another forum, I'll guess that the Startech is one of his 4 devices. But you'll have to use an external VCR and line tbc pass-thru into your combo unit.

msgohan · #10 05-13-2016, 10:08 PM

Yeah, I wasn't recommending this setup for him. I was just letting you know for future reference. Sorry for the tangent.

sanlyn · #11 05-14-2016, 08:41 AM

I figured that, thanks. Its not a method I'm willing to hassle with at this point (no similar combo unit here), and the 15 or so tapes I have left for capture are ugly noisy stuff from the early 1990's. Three_jeeps said in another thread he wanted to experiment, but I'd suggest getting conventional lossless capture under the belt first, which in itself would be an education.