Mini studio for capturing/upscale family/friends VHS tapes?

[dpalomaki]

As I see it, lossless capture is appropriate for material that will be:
- subject to serious restoration, noise reduction, color grading, effects, and editing beyond simple cuts.
- archived for potential future editing or restoration.
- working with noisy source material

Compressed formats such as MPEG or H264/265 are appropriate for
- distribution of the final product for home viewing
- use where file size/storage space/bandwidth is at premium
- one-and-done dump to DVD, BD, thumb drive, or other distribution media.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sn1p3r

what about that card:
https://retrosoundcards.wordpress.co...heater-xp-6-1/

have the same chip like TBSC and have own DSP procesor.

External audio card = latency.
No.

[sn1p3r]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpalomaki

As I see it, lossless capture is appropriate for material that will be:
- subject to serious restoration, noise reduction, color grading, effects, and editing beyond simple cuts.
- archived for potential future editing or restoration.
- working with noisy source material

Compressed formats such as MPEG or H264/265 are appropriate for
- distribution of the final product for home viewing
- use where file size/storage space/bandwidth is at premium
- one-and-done dump to DVD, BD, thumb drive, or other distribution media.

thank you all for the answers on this matter. the reason why I am asking this is because PCIe cards are more accessible. just as i understand it will take a little longer to get the final mpeg2 file. (capture loseless AVI> convert to MPEG 2)

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

External audio card = latency.
No.

has one mini jack line-in on the board, if I should grab the TBSC anyway, thats the only options for me is buying on ebay from US or Alliexpress here

next case is VCR...
because my family memories were recorded on a camera brought from the USA, so the next challenge is to get NTSC VCR in Europe, which is practically impossible

[sn1p3r]

and regarding capture PAL VHS tapes, which is better workflow:

JVC HR-S9700EU > ES10 > AIW capture card
or
JVC HR-S9700EU > ADVC 110 > firewire card

Quote:

Originally Posted by sn1p3r

next case is VCR...
because my family memories were recorded on a camera brought from the USA, so the next challenge is to get NTSC VCR in Europe, which is practically impossible

I have only found on ebay:
JVC SR-VS30U and
JVC HR-DVS3

[sn1p3r]

Guys, could you please advise regarding

NTSC workflow:

if this is risky option : JVC SR-VS30U or JVC HR-DVS3
maybe other suggestion about some mid-range NTSC VCR i can get in Euorpe? (JVC HDS1, SV-5000W)

PAL workflow, which one is better:

JVC HR-S9700EU > ES10 > AIW capture card
or
JVC HR-S9700EU > ADVC 110 > firewire card

[lordsmurf]

better = JVC HR-S9700EU > ES10 > AIW capture card

VCR + line TBC
> line TBC disabled, non-TBC frame sync
> quality 4:2:2 AIW capture

Neither are ideal.
ES10 has luma issues.
DV has 50% color loss + blocks in encode.

More ideal is available. Do you have a budget? Remember: buy it, use it, resell it.

Stuff like this is too important to just shrug off. You'll regret it one day, it always happens. Seen it countless times. You'll just end up redoing the work later.

[sn1p3r]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

better = JVC HR-S9700EU > ES10 > AIW capture card

ES10 has luma issues.
DV has 50% color loss + blocks in encode.

More ideal is available. Do you have a budget? Remember: buy it, use it, resell it.

Stuff like this is too important to just shrug off. You'll regret it one day, it always happens. Seen it countless times. You'll just end up redoing the work later.

DV have the same problem regarding PAL?
I know that ideal will be with frame TBC

What I can get now for PAL is: JVC S9700, PANASONIC HS1000, ES-10 (standalone TBC IS Out of my budget range)

But when it comes to NTSC it is worse, I do not know what to look for on the European market. what i found is vs30u, but is it possible that it comes in two ntsc and pal versions

[hodgey]

For PAL, DV reduces color resolution by 50% vertically instead of horizontally. PAL is kind of reduced color resolution vertically based on how it works anyhow so there won't really be much loss of resolution. Blocking/Compression noise is still an issue though, especially on noisy tapes.

ES10 (or most other Panasonic DVD-recorders since you are in PAL) don't have those issues, though they do have a tendency to blow out bright spots unless you manually lower the input video signal to them. If using a ES10 or similar anyhow you could also consider one of cheaper variants of the SVHS models without built-in TBC as they're mostly the same as the top of the line variant with TBC for playback (with a few exceptions).

Using the dvd-recorder approach also won't work if the tape has copy protection as that makes the brightness in most dvd-recorders to go up and down constantly passed through. It wasn't used much on PAL tapes though e.g many newer Disney ones have it. It was used a fair bit on commercial titles in NTSC areas however.

Most PAL/International Panasonic dvd-recorders including the ES10 support standard NTSC input so it's usable with a VCR that outputs that, it does not work with NTSC 4.43 or PAL60 which is what you get from a normal PAL VCR playing NTSC tapes. (The only dvd-recorders that support those are newer Sony and Pioneer ones, though they're not as good as jitter correction and are more prone to dropping frames than the panasonic ones.)

The U at the end of a JVC model name typically signifies an US model, I think the equivialent PAL variant would be SR-VS30E and has SCART sockets on the back. PAL decks also tend to show "625" under the VHS logo to indicate a (625-line) PAL system. The antenna connectors also use different plugs in the US and Europe so they will look different.
EDIT: I think the "SR-VS30U" is probably the european one as it shows "NICAM/A2" (digital broadcast audio format) and "TV-Link" (I think it's some interfacing with TV via SCART thing) which I doubt you would find on an US model. EDIT2: The last 2images in the ebay listing shows a different one for some reason which does look like the US model though they look like stock images from elsewhere.

[sn1p3r]

quick question, can i use ES-10 PAL with NTSC VCR? if so, what good NTSC VCR do you recommend without TBC? Because if I understand correctly, I have to turn them off anyway

[hodgey]

Yes. It works with both normal NTSC (from a NTSC or proper Multi-system VCR) and PAL. It will not work properly with a standard PAL VCR playing NTSC tapes. There is a setting in the menus for changing between them.

[sn1p3r]

if i don't plan to use standalone TBC, do i still have to look for top VCR with TBC if i already have ES-10. what will be a good alternative for VCR PAL and NTSC? (two devices)

i have option for S7611, HDS1 or HS1000 (not big difference in price) all PAL

[sn1p3r]

Guys, I would like to finally close the topic, but I still need an answer.

I currently have an ES-10 and an old PC with win7 and ATI AIW card, if I don't plan to buy a separate TBC do I really need High End VCR since I have to turn off the TBC anyway.

I currently have the option of purchasing VCR for PAL:

1) JVC 7611 & Panasonic HS1000
2) JVC 9700

but do I really need these? some other from mid range?

will a good PAL VCR be sufficient to playback NTSC tape? if so, what?

[hodgey]

Out of those 3, I would go for the JVC HR-S7611, probably the safest bet. The HS1000 can be a bit hit and miss depending on condition, and the 9700 has the dynamic drum system that is a bit fragile and prone to breaking.

If you are using the ES10 anyhow, you could consider one of the cheaper SVHS models without TBC, i.e the NV-HS800 is HS1000 essentially the same as the HS1000 without TBC, the JVC HR-S6600 and 6611 are pretty much the same as the 7611 minus the TBC/DNR function. (I would stay away the very old side loading JVC models and the earliest Panasonics unlike you like repairing stuff yourself though.)

For capturing NTSC in PAL land, depends how much you want to budget on it, and how much tapes have:

Budget option 1: multi-system VCR with proper ntsc 3.58 output (or NTSC VCR) -> ES10 set to NTSC mode-> capture card
Budget option 2: Whatever SVHS you chose for pal (or another decent PAL VCR) -> newer pioneer/sony dvd-recorder in NTSC mode -> capture card
Option 2 won't work with the ES10 since standard PAL vcrs don't output a standard NTSC signal when playing back NTSC tapes. For that you would need one of the pioneer/sony ones dvd-recorders specifically. Those are the only ones that work with NTSC 4.43 and PAL60 as far as I know, though they're not as robust on very bad tapes as the ES10.

By proper multi-system I mean something like this. One that shows "NTSC 3.58" in additon to other tv system on the front. Don't know much about that model specifically other than that the PAL ones that look like it has the same mechanism as the HS1000 and AG1980P so no idea how usable it is, just an example. Ebay sellers sometimes confuse the NTSC on PAL playback with "multi-system" so have to be aware.

The TBC on the JVCs work when playing back NTSC tapes, on the panasonic NV-HS1000 it does not. (No idea about the later panasonics like the HS860 etc).

Getting a NTSC SVHS is of course also an option, though you would most likely have to import one from the US or Japan as the few full multi-system SVHS decks are extremely rare.

[lordsmurf]

As a quick partial reply, the reason to own a JVC S-VHS deck isn't just for the line TBC, but the overall quality of image. It's not ruined by oversharpening, crushing contrast, etc. The transports are generally better, safer.

You need NTSC VCR for NTSC playback. That quasi output from PAL decks does not work.

"Multisystem" VCRs are notorious low-end crap, aside from a rarer JVC model.