VHS tape conversion to digital, what hardware to use?

[latreche34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjr07

Not familiar with the term life timer. What does that mean? Also, the Blu-ray recorder is in my PC. Would know of no way to connect the VCR to it.

You said you are not going to be around for long, I assumed a timed life, I don't want to get into specifics, medical conditions whatever, these are personal matters.

If it is not a stand alone Blu-ray recorder you ca use a DVD recorder then or get one and just record to DVD-R's.

[dpalomaki]

The prime drivers here is time to completion coupled with budget available within that time constraint.

The quick transfer to DVD recorder can give a "draft" copy of the video of the tape content in a portable readily viewable media. This "draft" can be used to decide which tapes/portions of tapes are really worth preserving restoring to digital media. And to assist in preparing any narrative needed to to go with the video to put it into proper context if necessary. Playing the draft also saves wear on the tape and the VCR..

Quote:

You'll still be better off with VCR > ES10/15 > DVD recorder.

Considering this is an expedient approach is there reason not to use the DVD recorder capability of the ES10/15?

One thought. Do the best you can within the time and resources you have available to you. Its kind of like mom was not a great cook, but everyone in the family loved the attempts she made because they were filled with love. She was doing it for us, not for some third party or an external critic. The content was more important to us than the technical excellence.

- - -

The Videonics web site had a note on it something to the effect of: "The difference between an amateur and a professional is that the amateur shows you ALL of his pictures."

I am in the process of going through my deceased parents slides, maybe keeping 1 in 10 because of the content. I know the people and/or place in the picture and focus/exposure issues are forgiven. Then I will need to do the same with the sides I've shot over the past ~60 years.

[sjr07]

Thanks to everyone that posted straightforward solutions in a normal manner, without attitude.

Since smurf CONTINUES to offend, I will not be reading anything he writes. If I want to have feelings, I’m gonna have them. Watch Good Will Hunting - math AND emotions. Stop being so offensive, insulting and dismissive. Life will go better for you. Hopefully he can control himself and excuse himself from this discussion. I don’t care how much vast knowledge he possesses. His lack of empathy is startling.

As requested, I am in the process of gathering the model numbers of the hardware I currently own that can potentially be a part of the solution.

Thanks again

[lingyi]

Your choice to ignore lordsmurf, but understand and accept that his posts, this thread and this forum is not only for you. He and others, myself included, post to share our thoughts and experiences with others who may possibly learn and appreciate those posts.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpalomaki

The prime drivers here is time to completion coupled with budget available within that time constraint.

But it also has to be coupled with the facts of consumer analog formats. Time and budget will always be secondary to it. The key is to find a 3-way balance, not to ignore facts (which is what the OP is doing here; I know you know the ins/outs of video).

Quote:

The quick transfer to DVD recorder can give a "draft" copy of the video of the tape content in a portable readily viewable media. This "draft" can be used to decide which tapes/portions of tapes are really worth preserving restoring to digital media. And to assist in preparing any narrative needed to to go with the video to put it into proper context if necessary.

Yes, that's the idea I put forth in my last post, though restated differently. However...

Quote:

Playing the draft also saves wear on the tape and the VCR..

This is a main concern these days. Too many tapes are becoming "one and done" scenarios. The tape massively degraded on the first playback, and subsequent playbacks can be unviewable. I've seen this especially happen with early 80s tapes, especially BASF. But others are getting affected, be it mid-80s Maxell or others.

Quote:

Considering this is an expedient approach is there reason not to use the DVD recorder capability of the ES10/15?

any VCR > ES10/15 > any DVD recorder (SP mode only)
really is the minimal setup.

Low-end consumer VHS VCR playback will usually be inferior (especially "combo" decks). ES10/15 has negatives compared to actual TBCs, though better than nothing at all. And then certain DVD recorders are awful to use, both quality and usability. But when you're pinching pennies, that is the least setup possible, while still getting usable results.

While non-TBC S-VHS VCRs are more ideal, there are some decent models: most mid/late 90s Sharps, late 90s and early 2000s Sony, mid 90s Toshiba. Cheap stuff like GE, RCA, no-names, all awful, from any era. These are not "suggested" necessarily, but rather not "not suggested". Neutral on them. Could be better, could be worse.

Quote:

One thought. Do the best you can within the time and resources you have available to you.

People always overlook the time required to futz with inferior equipment. Video isn't a commodity, where everything is "the same", barring the branding sticker. It's just not so. When you reduce budget, shortcuts are taken for manufacturers to meet those low budgets. Every shortcut add workarounds, potential problems. When you gnaw a budget to the bone, you must expect issues. And those issues take time. That's the tradeoff. So when you have limited time (due date constraints), avoiding adding time is key. Facing that, avoiding something as simple and cheap as an ES10/15 becomes a matter of stubbornness, and nothing more.

Quote:

"The difference between an amateur and a professional is that the amateur shows you ALL of his pictures."

Yep.

Quote:

I am in the process of going through my deceased parents slides, maybe keeping 1 in 10 because of the content. I know the people and/or place in the picture and focus/exposure issues are forgiven. Then I will need to do the same with the sides I've shot over the past ~60 years.

You do the best possible with the source available. Source is beyond your control. But the goal is to not make those look worse, which is what happens when you avoid the basic/essential tools for the task.

And I wish you well on that project.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjr07

Since smurf CONTINUES to offend, I will not be reading anything he writes. If I want to have feelings, I’m gonna have them. Watch Good Will Hunting - math AND emotions. Stop being so offensive, insulting and dismissive. Life will go better for you. Hopefully he can control himself and excuse himself from this discussion. I don’t care how much vast knowledge he possesses. His lack of empathy is startling.

Your continual attempt to portray yourself as a victim is amusing. After decades online, it's quite easy to see this as the BS it is. I suggest you learn to set emotion aside, and focus on the task.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lingyi

Your choice to ignore lordsmurf, but understand and accept that his posts, this thread and this forum is not only for you. He and others, myself included, post to share our thoughts and experiences with others who may possibly learn and appreciate those posts.

Correct.

These days, this is a main reason I post:
- to quash myth,
- to help others avoid costly (both time and money) mistakes.

Very often, I consider myself a guard rail, bumpers (bowling), to keep the conversations factual, and avoiding temptation to just succumb to the crap gear like Easycap, Funai, HDMI adapters, and whatnot. There is ample room to do a decent job, or better yet an excellent job, at converting consumer analog formats like VHS, Hi8, Video8, and others. You don't need to be defeatist, nor accept whatever junk Mr. Chinaman made for you (his cost $1, your cost $100, China pockets $99 from dumb American/European).

So in these conversations, I may engage an OP, or not. My main concern is the info. I post for all. In a public forum, others read, many lurk. I post for them as much as any OP or existing member.

[Hushpower]

Quote:

Considering this is an expedient approach is there reason not to use the DVD recorder capability of the ES10/15?

any VCR > ES10/15 > any DVD recorder (SP mode only) really is the minimal setup.

LS, I think you've missed Dpalomaki's question. Why can't one just record onto a DVD in the ES-15? After all, the ES-15's "TBC" is fitted to improve the input video and burn good DVDs, is it not?

I'm a 90/10 guy. I'll accept 90% of the quality for 10% of the effort. That includes cost.

I think there is a certain level of doom and gloom on this subject. In my (limited) experience, if you've got half-decent tapes, you don't need a $800 VCR, $200 capture stick that was produced 20 years ago, a computer that went out of date 15 years ago nor a $1000 Frame TBC. You'll get good results anyway. Mum's cooking is a great analogy, Dpalomaki.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hushpower

LS, I think you've missed Dpalomaki's question. Why can't one just record onto a DVD in the ES-15? After all, the ES-15's "TBC" is fitted to improve the input video and burn good DVDs, is it not?

Yep, missed it.

Hmm .... perhaps. You can always try it.

The main issue the ES10/15 is the recorder itself is awful. Not a reference to the quality of the encoding (also not great), but the drives. You're more likely to make a coaster. If you already have a DVD recorder, as this OP does (right?), then use that recorded after the ES10/15 passthrough.

Quote:

I'm a 90/10 guy. I'll accept 90% of the quality for 10% of the effort. That includes cost.

I use DVD recorders for hobby all the time. It reduces effort by at least 50%, and the quality is only slightly reduced due to the usual slight IRE offset of the recorder. I fully agree. (In my case, do note I have a Cypress TBC between S-VHS deck and JVC DVD recorder, when converting from tape source.)

Quote:

I think there is a certain level of doom and gloom on this subject. In my (limited) experience, if you've got half-decent tapes, you don't need a $800 VCR, $200 capture stick that was produced 20 years ago, a computer that went out of date 15 years ago nor a $1000 Frame TBC. You'll get good results anyway. Mum's cooking is a great analogy, Dpalomaki.

This is the ES10/15 type Panasonic. It can work, for some % of tapes, depending on source, also depending on PAL vs. NTSC. There are downsides, quality hits, but it can reign in a budget if money matters more than quality. It can be a fine tradeoff, and one I've recommended in many instances. But it is very definitely a case-by-case basis for such a recommendation.

You're using something like this, right? Panasonic ES10/15 type recorder for passthrough? But you have to compensate (workarounds) for the PAL luma issue. That's a quality hit, adds some fiddling, adds some time to get it functioning decently. But I know you get results you like, and it seemed fine to me. For your situation, your sources, it worked.

[Hushpower]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordsmurf

You're using something like this, right? Panasonic ES10/15 type recorder for passthrough? But you have to compensate (workarounds) for the PAL luma issue. That's a quality hit, adds some fiddling, adds some time to get it functioning decently. But I know you get results you like, and it seemed fine to me. For your situation, your sources, it worked.

Yes, I do use the ES-15. Wouldn't do without it. Funnily enough, I didn't even know about the brightness issue (or the VDub histogram, for that matter) until later, but now adjust the levels using it (the histogram). For a giggle (based on a post from one of the European people, Bogelin, I think), I have experimented with an inline reostat on the video line inbound to the Es--15. Seems to work, dropping the level a tad so it can be "boosted" back up by the ES-15.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hushpower

Yes, I do use the ES-15. Wouldn't do without it. Funnily enough, I didn't even know about the brightness issue (or the VDub histogram, for that matter) until later, but now adjust the levels using it (the histogram). For a giggle (based on a post from one of the European people, Bogelin, I think), I have experimented with an inline reostat on the video line inbound to the Es--15. Seems to work, dropping the level a tad so it can be "boosted" back up by the ES-15.

Very good.

Yes, Bogelein makes some good posts, even if he and I disagree some. (For whatever reason, in this internet era, people take disagreement far too personally. It wasn't like that in decades past.) I missed the reostat info, will have to search for it sometime.

I'm actually not a "histogram nazi" (value absolutist), because the mere act of recording to VHS was pretty destructive to both luma and chroma. It simply needs to be retained without more excessive damage. However, the mere act of processing and ingesting usually does still add some more damage. So you want to mitigate (ie, not us cheap capture cards that excessively damage luma/chroma values, like Easycaps or even DV boxes for NTSC). Color is a bit art, after all, it has some leeway. Histograms should also be viewed as bumpers (bowling), to not exceed reasonable bounds, not as precision instruments to be followed without question (or common sense eyeballs).

As long as you understand drawbacks of gear, and attempt to compensate (workarounds), while using at least a minimally acceptable workflow (not something massively damaging like HDMI adapter, overly cheap gear), then it gets my approval. I think you're doing a swell job at converting your videos. Kudos to you.