Which TBC is best option for Video8 camera?

[srmusico]

Hi!
Im planning the best way to capture my Video 8 Pal Tapes.
I have my original Sony CCD-FX270E where all that tapes were recorded in the 90s.

In my setup, I have some SVHS, DVHS and a Panasonic DMR ES10. All them have TBC, but i don't know which one have the best TBC inside to do a Passthru to my AJA LHi.
My VCR are:

- Panasonic SVHS NV HS930
- JVC SVHS SR-V10
- Philips DVHS VR 20D

-Also , i have a JVC BR - DV600EA profesional Mini DV VCR. (Don't Know if it have any TBC feature)

What could be the best TBC option for Passthru?
Does these VCR's have Passthru ?
Panasonic ES10 vs Digital Philips VHS?


Thanks for your help and support.

[mbassiouny]

Out of curiosity,

> In my setup, I have some SVHS, DVHS and a Panasonic DMR ES10. All them have TBC, but i don't know which one have the best TBC inside to do a Passthru to my AJA LHi.

Since you have them already, Why don't you try them and tell us/share samples?

The VCR buying guide already covers some of the models that have pass-through, but the list is not exhaustive.

The ES10 can do passthrough, it is not documented and was discovered by accident, your other TBC-equipped devices may or may not have passthrough, regardless of the documentation/manual. So, why don't you give them a try and tell us?

[srmusico]

Quote:

> In my setup, I have some SVHS, DVHS and a Panasonic DMR ES10. All them have TBC, but i don't know which one have the best TBC inside to do a Passthru to my AJA LHi.

AJA is known to be a really great (one of the best) capture cards, but have problems having a stable signal with domestic players.

BlackMagic have dropouts and AJA freeze image for 1-3 segs before the start of a new sequence (tested with my collection of VHS VCRs).
With my ES10 in passthru, this problem is solved. The signal gets a perfect stability. The problem is that i need to route also audio inside ES10 to get a synchronized audio + video.

Quote:

So, why don't you give them a try and tell us?

Yeah, i had tried, but how do you know if technically a TBC is Passthru?
How do you know if there is no other process degrading your signals?

BTW, the most stable capture card that i have tested is my Matrox MXO2. Matrox work like a charm with SD domestic and profesional players.
I will share soon a big comparative of my capture cards.

[latreche34]

VCR's cannot be used as passthrough for TBC, they only TBC tapes played inside them, Use a camcorder with built in line TBC, if there is any problems use the ES10 as passthrough.

[lordsmurf]

Video8 is a very "droppy" (or drop-happy) formats. It drops, and often. Same for Hi8.

Correction: all of your S-VHS, D-VHS, and that ES10 have line TBC. This distinction matters. Line isn't frame. Line cleans the image, frame cleans the signal, you need both.

The ES10 has a non-TBC frame sync, but that's not the same. All that does is bake in issues with a forced timing release, not correct the timing. Sometimes baking fails, and it still outputs mistimed signal that cannot be locked by digital ingest/capture devices (ie, why it must often still be chased by a weak frame TBC).

VCRs do not have passthrough.
DV cameras usually do not either, and many also add DV compression.

The way to actually get a TBC is ... to get an actual TBC!

Not some "also has" item, where the TBC doesn't work as you think it should (as it was made for the item internals, not your external sources). And not all "TBCs" are TBCs. It's a wide term, can mean almost anything. It too often sucks in newbies (bargain hunter newbies especially) that see those 3 letters, without understanding what it actually means.

No card can go without TBC. Some are "more resilient" to minor signal issues, and just bake in the error on the ingest. But most get confused, balk. You'll get massive drops, or just an outright capture abort.

The ES10 requires audio for sync to the video on I/O, but it's also not perfectly time. Too often, I've detected "lip sync" drift, even when using JVC/Panasonic VCRs (TBCs on or off), and chasing (or not) with actual DataVideo/Cypress type TBCs. It's not a flawless item, but a mid-range consumer DVD recorder. It was "good enough" for that DVD recording task at the time, but VHS conversion really was not the main intention of the unit. Again, it's best saved for times where you need net gains in output qualty, namely tearing situations not correctable by other easy means. Not as a "TBC replacement" or "poor man's TBC", because it really is not.

Nobody likes buying boring e-gadget boxes. I sure don't, such as the network switch I recently has to purchase, or my TBCs decades ago. But it's the tool we require for this video conversion task. It's really no different from buying lawn mower, dishwashers, vacuum cleaners, power drills, etc. All boring stuff. Pricing is really no different from a decent desktop or laptop, especially anything "gaming" or Apple. I never understand the extreme pushback to buying video gear, when there's little to none for all the other items. Buy it, use it, resell it.