Acquired equipment for VHS to Youtube workflow?

[pVideoStore1988]

(Posted on VH forum)
I've been reading forums on here for years and finally took the leap and purchased a sought after S-VHS player and an inexpensive alt via a Vhs/DVD Recorder. With the combination of usb dongles, usb capture devices, a folder full of software, and scores of youtube videos; I'm having trouble etching out a workflow. I just want to make sure that I'm taking the right steps with the right stuff on day 1.

First of all, I should start with my ultimate goal. My intent is to archive old VHS videos, rare commercials, and other findings primarily to youtube. Is there something else i should get, like an affordable elgato or avermedia capture hub? Do i need both the VCR and VCR/DVD Recorder?

VHS Equiptment:
Panasonic AG-1980 Desktop Editor VHS Recorder
Panasonic DMR-EZ48V VHS/DVD Recorder

Capture Devices:
Mini- AV2HDMI RCA Upscaler 1080P
Avermedia ET113 Dongle Component (YPbPr) to HDMI
Guermok HD AudioVideo Capture HDMI
Redyo S-video/RCA to USB Capture

Software:
VirtualDub2
StaxRip
MPC-BE
Brovicon

I've noticed that the VCR/DVD Recorder via HDMI output is a better quality than the SVHS Player, and i understand that i should want to do post-processing on the pc instead of the Recorder doing it. I'm including pics of my VHS player's video heads, i worried they might need to be replaced.

Any help and/or guidance would be appreciated! Hearing so many different takes on Youtube and the forums has me a bit overwhelmed.

[Aya_Rei]

If the Panasonic has been refurbished, then you got a very great VCR to work with. If not then perhaps it is best to contact Aramkolt.

Sadly what is setting you back is your choice in capturing gear, all these cheap converters. It'd suck to use a great VCR and not get it's full benefits by lowering it's quality due to using terrible capture cards that convert to HDMI. Don't do that for analog tapes. HDMI isn't meant for this. We use HDMI converters to play old video game consoles on modern TVs, not convert analog tapes properly.

Software selection seems alright, though I personally use the original VirtualDub on a Windows XP laptop and then use Selur's Hybrid on a Windows 10 machine for restoration work.

[lordsmurf]

Welcome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pVideoStore1988

I've been reading forums on here for years and finally took the leap and purchased a sought after S-VHS player and an inexpensive alt via a Vhs/DVD Recorder. With the combination of usb dongles, usb capture devices, a folder full of software, and scores of youtube videos; I'm having trouble etching out a workflow. I just want to make sure that I'm taking the right steps with the right stuff on day 1.

You have the right mindset here -- get good gear, not cheap/junk gear -- but there are problems with the gear selections. We'll help you sort it.

Quote:

First of all, I should start with my ultimate goal. My intent is to archive old VHS videos, rare commercials, and other findings primarily to youtube.

As a fellow toon/TV collector, and commercial collector, I implore you to do a good job. The hobby community appreciates good quality, only those non-hobby hit-and-run viewers accept lousy quality.

What I mostly refer to here is:
- capturing SD interlaced lossless, properly QTGMC deinterlacing + 8px cropping + resizes 4:3
- vs. using some cheap crappy HD (and HDMI) capture, as it's a meat grinder to quality

The better way is not much extra effort for vastly better quality. And our community will appreciate it.

Quote:

Is there something else i should get, like an affordable elgato or avermedia capture hub?

No, not Elgato (which is infamous, and earned the nickname "Elcrapo"), nor AverMedia (which has always been a bottom-tier quality capture card company).

Quote:

Do i need both the VCR and VCR/DVD Recorder?

The DVD recorder has a strong+crippled line TBC, with non-TBC frame sync. These recorders all add various noise and quality issues, such as posterization, AGC aggression, luma offset, etc. It's not transparent to use DVD recorders. These are not "best quality" units by any means, but rather "minimal quality" or "better than nothing" (no TBCs). And anyway, DVD recorders "with TBC" should be consider "TBC(ish)", as it's not true TBC due to various crippling/etc issues.

However, I'm not sure that exact Panasonic EZ48V even has a line TBC inside. Most DVD recorders lack any kind of TBC, including more tan half of the Panasonics. It was only a few specific brands and models. Most non-Panasonic are PAL only models, NTSC has vastly less choices.

Quote:

VHS Equiptment:
Panasonic AG-1980 Desktop Editor VHS Recorder
Panasonic DMR-EZ48V VHS/DVD Recorder

The AG-1980P can be excellent, but it has to be re-capped (and probably top-to-bottom refurbished) in the 2020s. These units are infamous for problems, without that recap work. However, do not, even after recap, it'll need attention again. 1980s are money pit decks, not for casual users. JVC S-VHS with-TBC decks should be a person's first VCR, as it will do better than 1980 in many ways (including longer-term costs of repairs).

Quote:

Capture Devices:
Mini- AV2HDMI RCA Upscaler 1080P
Avermedia ET113 Dongle Component (YPbPr) to HDMI
Guermok HD AudioVideo Capture HDMI
Redyo S-video/RCA to USB Capture

All of these are Amazon/eBay junk from China. Zero quality. The HDMI adapter stretches, distorts, off-color, etc. "Guermok" and "Redyo" are nonsense brand names invented for Chinese Amazon sellers. All of that crud is about $2 on the Chinese market.

The Avermedia is a brand, but not a good one. That ET113 is just a video gamer doodad for connecting component consoles to HDMI-only TVs, not intended for capturing of any kind. It has minimal differences from the "Guermok" junk, and is again under $10 on the Chinese marketplaces.

You need quality, such as specific ATI or Pinnacle cards. (And this is why I provide this gear in the marketplace, though I'm almost sold out again, just a few Pinnacle left. I try to be the "easy button" for acquiring known-good gear.)

Quote:

Software:
VirtualDub2
StaxRip
MPC-BE
Brovicon

No.
- Use original VirtualDub (not the "2" fork) for capture.
- Use Hybrid for QTGMC processing, crop, upscale. StaxRip and Brovicon are toys by comparison (especially Brovicon, which looks entirely worthless).

Quote:

I've noticed that the VCR/DVD Recorder via HDMI output is a better quality than the SVHS Player, and i understand that i should want to do post-processing on the pc instead of the Recorder doing it. I'm including pics of my VHS player's video heads, i worried they might need to be replaced.

"Better" is probably relative to condition of the gear, and/or the bad video handling by the software mentioned. There's no way a cheap DVD recorder with an HDMI dongle should outperform an AG-1980P. That means something is wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aya_Rei

If the Panasonic has been refurbished, then you got a very great VCR to work with. If not then perhaps it is best to contact Aramkolt.

Sadly what is setting you back is your choice in capturing gear, all these cheap converters. It'd suck to use a great VCR and not get it's full benefits by lowering it's quality due to using terrible capture cards that convert to HDMI. Don't do that for analog tapes. HDMI isn't meant for this. We use HDMI converters to play old video game consoles on modern TVs, not convert analog tapes properly.

Software selection seems alright, though I personally use the original VirtualDub on a Windows XP laptop and then use Selur's Hybrid on a Windows 10 machine for restoration work.

Yep, all of that.

[ge0dude]

If you want the best capture that's approved by most people on this forum, I'll give you an example workflow

1) Approved VCR from this forums VCR buying guide, or perhaps a Japanese counterpart which you can usually get for cheaper. The ag-1980 is on the list and is one of the most desired, but like others have said it requires quite a lot of upkeep for good picture. VHS can look as good as DVD if the capture is done right (and the source is good) imo. Any VCR you buy will require upkeep, so if you can buy them properly refurbished go that route.

2) An approved capture device from this forum. You want to capture in SD with HuffyUV in virtualdub, this gives the most reliable results, typically on a 32-bit Windows system (xp or 7) -but there are some alternative workflows that work on 64 bit systems, but they usually fall short on picture quality in comparison to the 32 bit cards.

3) In between you'll need a good frame TBC which you'll also find the good models on this forum

The frame TBC needs to be confirmed working and is definitely the one thing I would buy on this forum in the marketplace from either someone who has used it recently to convert their collection, or directly from LordSmurf himself. These are old and delicate units and can have a lot of defects, I would advise against ebay. This is also one area where I would only stick to the approved TBC's, and not stray from the list. As tempting as some converters or DVD recorders may be. Like Aya_Rei said, it would suck to have such a great VCR and not get it's full benefits. You don't want to put the picture through a digital meat grinder. Be prepared to spend well over $1000 for a good TBC, but if you're lucky you might find one for less (I believe theres a PAL only TBC for sale in the marketplace right now for 700€, which is an amazing deal, if only we were PAL (we use NTSC in North America) I see LordSmurf has one posted for sale right now for $1750, which is a fair price for a working unit. You can wait months and not see a better price.

As someone who has bought the wrong items near the beginning of my journey, I get the pickle you're in. If you have a well working ag-1980 though, it would be well worth it to get the best picture possible. You can always resell the other items you bought or keep them around for other uses. It's not like they don't work for capture, but like the others have said, they're really made for playing old video game consoles on modern devices, just another Digital meat grinder. You want to go through the least amount of A/D D/A steps possible, and every step needs to be of the highest quality. No upconversion or downconversion or any of that.

[Gary34]

I wouldn’t worry about setting up an XP system. I don’t think the difference between quality capture cards is that noticeable. The Pinnacle cards in the marketplace are compatible with newer operating systems. They are very good cards. I’ve used mine in windows 7 and 10. The main thing with the Pinnacle cards is they were a long lived model with different versions so they made changes to the unit but the outside of the unit looks the same. It’s a common thing with digitizing hardware. The ones sold in the marketplace in this site are the wright version of Pinnacle cards.

With refurbishing the 1980p ag. Deter is very trusted for fixing the 1980p ags. Deter only takes on work for a little bit of the year so he may not be available. I’ve heard nothing but good about Aramkolt.

[aramkolt]

I still do AG1980 refurbs for $750 which includes full recap *including through hole capacitors* of the TBC card, full recap of power supply, full recap of both front boards, head amp, and a few other select capacitors I've seen go bad commonly even if they aren't bad at the time of the refurb. I also do significant deck maintenance including pulling of the capstan for relubrication, and replacing of the loading motor coupler even if it isn't cracked at the time of the refurb as that is a common failure point. My turnaround time is usually 1-2 weeks. I use only genuine Panasonic, Nichicon, and Rubycon capacitors sourced from Mouser.com and these are all made in Japan and considered top tier brands. I also don't charge anything in advance since the outcome of the refurb is not fully known until it is done.

Deter only recaps the surface mount caps on the TBC card (not the through hole ones) and a few caps on the front board plus some deck maintenance. This is based on my observations from a few AG1980's I've "Re-Refurbished" that he's previously worked on. I believe charges the same or more and turnaround time is probably more like 4-6 weeks from what I can gather. He uses Wurth brand capacitors which could technically be manufactured anywhere in Asia as it's a German conglomerate brand. Wurth definitely looks good on paper, but I'd prefer to stick with the longstanding reputable brands myself.

I suspect that your HDMI capture looks better off the 48V because your digitization cards are not ideal and probably because your AG1980 hasn't been refurbished yet, so having the 48V do the digitization to HDMI is likely to look better.

If you want to see what the output of one of my fully refurbed AG1980's looks like, you can send me one of your tapes and a flash drive of the capture you got via both the V48 and your AG1980 and I'll do a 2 minute capture of the same tape and post here (and put back on your flash drive) and send back to you so that you can decide if it is worth changing your setup to something similar and having your deck refurbed by me.

This is more of a random capture of a commercially-produced tape that I happen to have on my YouTube channel, but this was from an AG1980 that I refurbed and I simply deinterlaced, cropped, and upscaled with Hybrid in one step. No AI, noise reduction, or other filters were used post capture.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cJqw81_GIw

Here's another user's capture of the same tape release using an unknown capture setup. Looks like they were using a line TBC (or something similar), but there's quite a bit of chroma instability and the image is not as clear to my eye. That, and they have the wrong aspect ratio. Looking at their capture, I apparently was a bit aggressive with the amount of cropping from the bottom edge as I must have entered too large of a value of how much to crop within hybrid which I didn't notice until just now haha:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBwqf_xNUIs

[latreche34]

It's a good practice to do a full recap, Usually when the bad caps are replaced they tend to take out the okay caps that were on the verge of going bad in the same circuit, when the full voltage is recovered those week caps are put to their full capacity, therefore they can go "pop" right away or take some voltage abuse and fail at a later date.

[pVideoStore1988]

Thanks all for the responses. I got a bit overwhelmed with so much new info and kinda backed away. Ready to dive back in but gonna reach out to a contact who may have owned the ag1980, before me, and check on if it was refurbed and go from there. Plan to get a backup JVC HR SVHS unit (locally) and a cap card from the marketplace, and then go from there.

Thanks Aya, Lordsmurf, ge0, Gary, aramkolt, and latereche!