AG1980 and color smear on motion

[lordsmurf]

Could it be Macrovision? Yes, perhaps. Remember that is an anti-copy, and all anti-copy is is artificial signal damage. It can react in many ways, and it can change from VCR to VCR, or even TBC to TBC. Both the model, and the distinct unit.

[premiumcapture]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Could it be Macrovision? Yes, perhaps. Remember that is an anti-copy, and all anti-copy is is artificial signal damage. It can react in many ways, and it can change from VCR to VCR, or even TBC to TBC. Both the model, and the distinct unit.

On a non-commercial tape the effect is barely noticeable if present and presents a good picture (not as good as my 9800), but I am only working on making copies of commercial tapes. One of my side projects is digitizing cheap, out of print, and generally forgotten martial arts tapes which are 50-50 when it comes to copy protection.

LS, is there a best anti-macrovision VCR? Beyond stripping copy protection, I haven't noticed a huge difference in PQ with the TBC-1000.

[lordsmurf]

I think the JVCs are better about not being fubar with anti-copy signals. The audio is often better on the JVC as well, when it's a HiFi track (including mono). I detect a lot of volume issues with Panasonics, on retail tapes.

[premiumcapture]

FWIW - this is thread I referred to previously from Orsetto

http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/3...ticeable-w-out

[lordsmurf]

Orsetto says a lot of crazy sh!t these days. He wasn't like that 10 years ago. He's far too over-the-top when he posts now, and as a result he contradicts himself all the time. One day the AG-1980 is awesome, the next day it's a flawed turd.

In that thread, what the person was more likely seeing was a byproduct of the Panasonic DVD recorder he was using, not the VCR. That's a very common issue with the EZ model Panasonics (as well as the ES line). It's one reason (of several) that Panasonic recorders were not very good.

I have some high standards, but it's tempered with pragmatism. I want high quality, but I also want to get the work done. I cannot stagnate, always seeking something better, therefore doing nothing. (Inversely, I refuse to settle for mediocrity. It's a fine line.)

Viewing this in a player (MPC), real-time not frame-by-frame, I saw nothing that screamed at my eyeballs, aside from the chroma offset and dots. After decades of looking at VHS tapes, it's not bad at all. Then again, it was a super-brief clip. Perhaps I'd change my mind with a longer clip. You have to judge that for yourself.

[premiumcapture]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Orsetto says a lot of crazy sh!t these days. He wasn't like that 10 years ago. He's far too over-the-top when he posts now, and as a result he contradicts himself all the time. One day the AG-1980 is awesome, the next day it's a flawed turd.

In that thread, what the person was more likely seeing was a byproduct of the Panasonic DVD recorder he was using, not the VCR. That's a very common issue with the EZ model Panasonics (as well as the ES line). It's one reason (of several) that Panasonic recorders were not very good.

I have some high standards, but it's tempered with pragmatism. I want high quality, but I also want to get the work done. I cannot stagnate, always seeking something better, therefore doing nothing. (Inversely, I refuse to settle for mediocrity. It's a fine line.)

Viewing this in a player (MPC), real-time not frame-by-frame, I saw nothing that screamed at my eyeballs, aside from the chroma offset and dots. After decades of looking at VHS tapes, it's not bad at all. Then again, it was a super-brief clip. Perhaps I'd change my mind with a longer clip. You have to judge that for yourself.

I noticed that myself. I did buy an EH59 after speaking with him, and I can say I have been very happy with it. Got rid of my Magnavox and this unit's color levels and comb filter are the best I could ask for, very little blocking if any on SP even over composite.

One last thing on this - I was reading that the detail knob may adjust noise reduction with the sharpening knob. How exactly does that work? Oversharpening looks easier to deal with than the color issue if necessary as denoisers generally skip the temporal trail while some of the dehalo scripts work fairly well.

Thoughts?

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by premiumcapture

I was reading that the detail knob may adjust noise reduction with the sharpening knob. ?

On .... ?

[premiumcapture]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

On .... ?

The AG1980

[lordsmurf]

Do you mean the slider ... not knob?

There is some merit in unusual restoration methods. You could oversharpen, and let the halos cover up the perceived chroma blur. Then use Avisynth to remove the halos. Is that what you mean?

[premiumcapture]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Do you mean the slider ... not knob?

There is some merit in unusual restoration methods. You could oversharpen, and let the halos cover up the perceived chroma blur. Then use Avisynth to remove the halos. Is that what you mean?

Yes, forcing one more easily fixable error over another - but I was reading this and was confused:
http://www.studio1productions.com/Articles/AG1980.htm

It describes the knob as having noise control?

[sanlyn]

The Detail/Norm/Edit switch does nothing. This has been documented in several threads.

Do you have some sort of phobia about trying these setting changes yourself? You're not likely to destroy anything by doing so.

As lordsmurf notes, orsetto does often contradict himself, especially after he's spent a few hours replacing bad caps on his AG-1980 which he does every couple of years or so. It's a headache, sure. I wouldn't try it myself, I send the unit to TGrant if I see a need for maintenace and still use the second unit I purchased there. Orsetto also has a love-hate relationship with JVC as well, so you have to take his admonitions and tips with a grain of salt and learn to try a few things yourself. I've also followed Orsetto's advice on non-tbc VCRs and found it to be good info, and still use the two other VCRs he recommended (after going thru one bad episode with an eBay unit that should never have been put up for sale to begin with. Not Orsetto's fault).

You'll get a feel for sorting these articles out yourself if you use the players and check the results. There are those who despise anything that doesn't have a JVC logo on it whether the player works or not, and others with the opposite opinion who won't ever use a JVC, period. The proof is in the results, which ultimately is the acid test of whether or not you want to use a player. I think I said I use my 1980 about half the time, depending on the tape. I've gone through three JVC's but after permanent damage to three of my favorite tapes I won't go there again. That's just my perosnal take on that model line, but when they worked, they did what they were supposed to. The same for a couple of Pannies over the years that I've since discarded (one of them ruined a retail tape that fortunately I had copied with a 1980), and a 1991 SONY (which I still have and use for tapes originally recorded on them which, despite the SONY's '585' faults in some areas, gives me better playback with those tapes than any other newer player I have).

Do keep in mind that these players, JVC or Panasonic, have some years on them and require maintenance. My first 1980 cost me $500 from a supposedly reputable firm, but came to find out it had one bad video head. I had that one fixed and used it until it needed new caps, then traded it in for another one that I still own. In a month or two I've saved up to get a spare...just in case. I have about 100 hours of old EP tapes left, then I can rest easy. It's a quest, believe me. After my tapes are done, I'll keep those players for old family tapes my relatives keep sending me (talk about godawful tapes!).

It wouldn't be a bad idea at some point to make a good capture, at least several minutes of tape, and submit samples to get a feel for the actual restoration process. That's the point where you can get hands-on learning in spotting and fixing defects-- which in turn will make you more skillful at spotting problems during capture.

[premiumcapture]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanlyn

Do you have some sort of phobia about trying these setting changes yourself? You're not likely to destroy anything by doing so.

A part of me hopes that those who have owned these units far longer than I have know more about them than I do, and certainly one cannot judge the functionality of a VCR only on how the image is presented. There is always more than meets the eye with this stuff.