Relation between tape length and recording time?

[SFtheGreat]

So, what is the relation between tape length and recording time for Digital8 (PAL)?

All I know is that recording time is 2/3 of Video8/Hi8 tape, but I can get cheaply Data8 tapes, so why not.

[lordsmurf]

Digital8 = DV
DV = 13gb/hour

Revolutions of tape control data writing. Normal mode = tape rating.
Compressed writing = longer time

To me, stuff like this is trivia for theory books and Wikipedia. Why does it matter to you?

[SFtheGreat]

Because I can get 170m Data8 tapes for 1,5€, while 60 minutes Digital8 tapes are around 7€ or more.

[NJRoadfan]

There is no such thing as a "Digital 8" tape, they are all Hi-8 tapes that just have the run time for D8 mode printed on them. Hi-8 tapes should still be readily available and that price is absurd, even for the EU. Using Data 8 tapes in camcorders may be questionable. It depends on how the presence detect holes are setup (are the ones for Hi-8 present?) and the tape formula.

Camcorders almost exclusively used Metal Particle tape, with Hi-8 tapes being higher quality. Sony did try to market evaporated metal Hi-8 tapes for use in Digital-8 camcorders, but it really didn't catch on and apparently weren't as durable.

To answer the length question, a 120min NTSC (P6-120) 8mm tape is 106m or 346ft.
90min PAL (P5-90) 8mm tape is 112m.

Honestly at this point, I would be focusing on creating new content using tape-less workflows. There are plenty of very good new and used SD and HD camcorders on the market that record to solid state media now.

[SFtheGreat]

It was a mental shortcut, I meant 8mm tapes in Digital8 mode.

Data8 was MP as far, as I remember.

I thought about recognition holes, but I'd have to dig the Data tapes from old servers and unpach the only Hi8 tape I have, noone made any bid on it, so I won it for 0,25€. The retail price is so high, because there are few vendors of new old stock left.

So 112m tape would be 60 minutes in Digital8 mode, then 170m tape would be around 80-90 minutes and around 120 in LP mode, which is what I need, thank you for information.

I know, I simply wanted to get a D8 for legacy reasons, backwards compatibility and to cash people for transfering their tapes to DVD, wuality would be comparable to studio work (DVD has 5 times lower bitrate), I already know a guy in my city that does it with VHS, but doesn't do 8mm tapes, because he has no euipment, plus, DV is good enough for bootleg DVDs, but of course I'm going to invest in tapeless HD camcorders in the future when the budget will allow it. By the way, DCR-TRV828E I have cought for ~100€, while a pawn shop is selling 820E for ~250€, so my guess is that was a good deal.

UPDATE: and technically I can use my tape camcorders tapelessly, I can record live stream to PC over firewire, which I will est, because I will run out of tapesm 4 bands today, 4 tomorrow and only 7 tapes.

[dpalomaki]

Quote:

...Sony did try to market evaporated metal Hi-8 tapes...

As did Fuji and Panasonic among others. The big issue with ME tape is it was more prone to drop outs and cost more, but did offer somewhat better recording otherwise.

FWIW: Products such as the DataVideo DN-60 allow for tapeless recording (to CF cards) with many firewire-equipped DV and HDV camcorders.

[lordsmurf]

Fuji tapes were horrible. I remember lots of hype about Fuji in the late 90s, but the dropout, excess grain, and lack of color saturation sucked. Sony, JVC, TDK and even Maxell made better.

[SFtheGreat]

What about Fuji's S-VHS SE series?

By the way, I think the camcorder made the recording on the Data8 tape, but I haven't watched it yet, but if it's OK, I'm getting full stock available.

[lordsmurf]

Fuji S-VHS was passable, but also suffered from grain and color issues. No so much dropouts, unlike the VHS media and other tapes formats.

The only thing worse that Fuji S-VHS was Maxell S-VHS, because the Maxell was prone to feather. Maxell VHS, however, was way beyond Fuji's best quality, even in the Silver or Gold grades (below Broadcast grade). Only the Maxell Bronze was lousy, about on par with the best Fuji VHS.

Again: TDK, Sony, JVC, BASF -- all better choices.

Just FYI: I'd buy both in-store, phone catalog, and online. So my experience is not limited here. I burned through countless thousands of VHS and S-VHS tapes back in the day.

[SFtheGreat]

The only S-VHS available in my location are Fuji SE-180 and Maxell XR-S 60 to 240...

[dpalomaki]

At one time some budget oriented folks would melt (with a soldering iron, not drill) the S-VHS sensing hole in to a VHS cassette to fool the VCR into thinking it was an S-VHS tape. The question is whether or not any currently available VHS tapes are of sufficient quality to work credibly as a S-VHS tape?

Drilling a hole creates fragments - not good, carefully melting a hole was less likely to cause problems.

[SFtheGreat]

Via cassette tapes I learned to trust only BASF, but it was sold and rebranded, so I take what new old stock is available. I definitely wouldn't poke any holes or otherwise alter the integrity of recording mediums.

[NJRoadfan]

Most SVHS VCRs have an override switch to allow recording SVHS onto standard VHS tapes (the later ones removed this when they officially supported SVHS ET recording on standard tapes). Much to my surprise, the DVHS deck I have allowed overriding and thus digital recording to non-DVHS tapes. DVHS tapes have an addition sense hole on the other side of the case (compared to SVHS blanks).

[dpalomaki]

Quote:

Most SVHS VCRs have an override switch to allow recording SVHS onto standard VHS tapes...

Read more: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...#ixzz53ykozitd

FWIW: per the user manuals with the AG-1970 and AG-1980, and the S-VHS ON/OFF switch enables recording in VHS mode on a S-VHS tape. VHS tapes are always recorded in VHS mode. The switch has no effect on playback.

[SFtheGreat]

Back to the topic, apparently the runtime for 160 meter tape is 90 minutes / 135 minutes, which means it's 135 minutes in Hi8 mode. I guess then the 112 meter tape was 60 / 90 minutes. But the bloody DCR-TRV cannot record on QGD160M in LP mode.

[dpalomaki]

FWIW in NTSC land:

A Sony Hi8 E6-120 tape is rated for 120 minutes at SP and is listed on the package as 106 meters long. This is for Hi8 recording mode. I believe the 120 rating is nominal and that it actually can run about 123 minutes.

If used in a Sony GV-D200 for Digital8 recordings per the user manual it gives 1 hour at SP speed, 1.5 hours at LP speeds.

[SFtheGreat]

Correct.
In PAL area Digital8 mode is 2/3 of the Hi8 running time, or the same in LP mode.
In NTSC area it's 1/2, but 3/4 in LP mode, since LP mode gives only 3/2 of recording time, is that correct?