Here None
( Ohh, yes. A hello and a good by )

-kwag

By request of muaddib, MovieStacker will be back online when the sources are released, or the GPL code is removed. Whatever muaddib decides to do, and when he decides to do it.
There will be no more software downloads, until this is done.
The software (Moviestacker installer) has been removed from our private location.
So don't ask for it

Thanks,
-kwag

I will not reply to a lot of nonsense that I have read here.

As kwag said, Moviestacker is now removed from download.

I hope this is enough to stop this thread from going on and on.
I have made a post at doom9 about all what is going on.
I’m just too tired and my wife is threatening me with divorce!
So, I’ll not do it again here.
If you want to read the thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...0&pagenumber=5

Do you use moviestacker? Quite possibly he has helped you and thousands more. All contribute as they can. You don't have to be a people person or hold everyones hands to help. If only one person ever used his work he has helped them.

Muaddib if you need any help let me know. I may not be able to help you directly. But I might know people who could. I will help in any way I can to ease/expedite your situation. Get some sleep guy. Tell your wife you love her if you have not done so at least 10 times today. They like that kinda thing. Most importantly spend time with her and listen. I wish I could help you with that situation. But I suspect that is a truly private matter.

Sleep safe in the knowledge that people don't just think you are a good person. They know you are.

*edit*
Tell you what. Once you get things fixed I'll offer you a years free hosting as a mirror for your program binary on my home server. It's 24/7 dedicated server that is accessable as long as my ISP keeps the connection running. As I said we all will help as we can.
**edit edit**
Hell I bet I could probably do better than that. Let me know and I will put in a good word for you over at Doom9.
***edit edit edit***
Kwag no hard feelings. If you ever need help defending the one right the BSD affords your code I would not be opposed to helping out. The opensource community should stick together. BSD or GPL we are more alike than we are different.

It sounds good that now there's a solution and that the tonality becomes a way of cooperation.

I understand that. But the fact here is that muaddib didn't knew about GPL obligations. In fact he's not a good english speaker, I can assure you that even today he doesn't understand what exactly are the GPL obligations. I am seeing people here and specially at doom9 mistreating the guy as he was someone with bad intentions, when this clearly not the case, and I think this is very sad.

There's still time. Read about it here:http://www.mplayerhq.hu
Search for KISS in the news page.

I understand what you mean. Yes people can use this for future GPL violations. But I just think what is happening here is completelly different.

Please understand this: I am not against GPL/open source. I think open source software has a great potential for improvement and security as you said yourself. For personal reasons, I don't release my work as open source, but I think it's a great alternative.

But I also think the coder must have the right to know how they want their code to be. So I feel sad being muaddib being treated like some sort of bad guy (specially in doom9 forum) because he made this mistake, started coding moviestacker from FitCD without knowing what GPL is exactly. The fact is, GPL can be quite confusing for a person that doesn't speak english very well.

Looks like you came here very angry and now you are starting to understand the spirit of things. I am glad everything is going to a paceful solution. Actually, me, kwag and the others are just trying to help a friend person that has been good to us all, that's all. I never had time to say this before: welcome to our community.

That's hardly an issue with Jorel. Frankly what I have been able to read of his posts he does seem to be pushing things a bit. I don't personally have issue with the guy. And that is why I did not bother to go any farther with it.

You miss the point of the analogy though. Ignorance is not a defence. I understand his ignorance. But he knew the GPL was there. Shouldn't he have been the least bit curious what it was specifically about? I am working on an RSS project at the moment. And I have read the restrictions that many sites place on their RSS feeds. And by the letter of those restrictions I should be ok. But I am taking the time to run it past them and get their aproval before I go public with it. That is since there is nowhere in there that clearly covers what I will be doing. And guess what. This is not for a business. This is my hobby. Just like Muaddib. As long as I code and keep it to myself I can do any devious thing I wish. But when it goes public you need to dott your ts and cross your is.

I suppose I will chalk that up to language barrier since that is not even close to being the case. All I ever wanted Muaddib to do was the right thing. Get shh's permission to use his code as it was being used. Or comply with the terms of the GPL. Nothing more nothing less. I was not even demanding a time frame. I would be happier if shh and Muaddib started a dialog. Which after Kwag's intervention seemed less and less likely every day. That is largely what prompted this. Kwag. Muaddib was more or less just along for the ride unfortunatly.

How? My greatest hope was that Muaddib and shh would talk to eachother. Muaddib unfortunatly had listened to Kwag's advice on this topic. Further Kwag took full advantage of his position to say alot of bad things and spread alot of bad rumors about shh that were not warranted. Further reducing the chances of any of you seeing the real issue or Muaddib wanting to talk with him. Shh does not have to be your best buddy. And I understand someone wanting to stick up for their friends. But when it comes to something so clear cut and simple why resist it? It's only for everyones good. I would hazard a guess that a great many people came away from the discussion a great deal more knowledgable than they started it. Even if only a little.

Honestly most of the coments made elsewhere were all about Kwag's actions. And since Muaddib was being supported by Kwag he was really just along for the ride. I can't find a single place where someone mentions Muaddib specifically and being a bad person. That is unless Muaddib has picked up the nickname "they".

But the point is did they take the time to ask about it or learn about it? Did they take the time to use google? http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...=Google+Search and read the very first result?! http://www.gnu.org/licenses/translations.html

If you think I came here in anger you are mistaken. Sure I came in like gangbusters. But that was more because I was concerned than angry. If I was really angry I just recently had something brought to my attention that whether true or false would stand to have a great impact on this forum in light of recent events. Either it would cause the forum to be shutdown for using a companies name without their permission. Or if the association was real could cost someone their job in real life or at the very least a severe repremand for placing the company in undue legal jepordy. Even in the light of the way things have turned out I could still do this if I desired. And much much more. But frankly I don't see much reason to. As long as we all learned something. It's not about being spitefull. But doing the right thing. It's not always easy.

As far as I can see it, there are two ways to release software:

1) Closed, i.e. without source, if you intend to sell it. Make source available for an enormous amount of money, protected by written contracts and non-disclosure agreements. Microsoft does this.

2) Open, i.e. public domain, if you really want to give it away for free. If it's free, who cares what the code gets used for? I did this with my filters. I actively encourage anyone interested in wading through my code to improve them. I'd rather the results were also public domain, but don't really care if they're not. I didn't write them to make money.

But that's not really the issue here. I didn't read the entire thread (I'm tired after all lots of emotional hockey ) but have seen similar discussions many times. My perspective is that the (L)GPL is a stupid, restrictive licence. Yet, it's also pretty clear. If you base your code on GPL code, your code must also be GPL.

The real question is: what does "based on" mean? How much original code must remain for the licence to apply? 75%? 50%? 25%? 1%? It's not specified, but it would seem ridiculous to me if a handful of lines of code would qualify as "based on." I'd suggest the situation is similar to copyright law: provision is made for "fair use", whereby one can quote a portion of a copyrighted work if it does not comprise a "significant amount" of the resulting work.

I have no idea how much of the FitCD code is left in MovieStacker, but I imagine it wouldn't take too long for that code to be rewritten. shh says that "changing variable names" would not constitute removing the code. I'd say that's a tough one to call. Again, it's a matter of degree.

I also believe that the GPL does not cover "algorithms". There's a good chance that any two programmers implementing the same algorithm in the same language will come up with similar, possibly very similar, solutions. This does not mean that one is derived from the other. I see no reason for muaddib to have to come up with new logic for his program. He simply needs to sit down and rewrite the disputed sections of the code. If it turns out very similar to the way shh implemented the same thing, I'd say that's good evidence that shh devised the optimal algorithm in the first place.

As for shh wanting to inspect muaddib's rewritten code, assuming that's the path he decides to take, I think that's asking rather a lot. Closed source is closed source. If shh does a binary compare, or reverse engineers muaddib's code, and believes there are significant portions of his code left, then that's a matter for the courts. One can't simply demand another programmer release his source because one suspects some of the code is one's own.

Those are my thoughts on the matter. It'll be interesting to see how this develops .

Hi SansGrip,
It's just too good to see you around buddy
I must say I completely agree with your opinion.
I'll wait for Muaddib's answer to the subject in hands.
Although English is not Muaddib's native language, and GPL is written in English (and I know there are Portuguese translations too), I think Muaddib will show that he clearly understands what is written there.
He is probably doing the needed arrangements so that everyone get's what they're asking, according to GPL that is.
Now, a bit off topic.
Your filters: will we ever see you working on them again?
Once in a while we have some problem with GripFit 2.5x.
I think it's a work based on your GripFit 2.0x.
Any plans for future development on this and other filters?
Regards.

__________________
Rui

Hi SansGrip
Long time no see
I agree with you on everything.
I am also very happy to see a bright person, as you, to also say: "(L)GPL is a stupid, restrictive licence"
Only that my thought of GPL being "stupid", is that it's even beyond stupidity (as I've said before)
And I'm sure the majority of all SERIOUS developers, think like that too.
Thanks for coming by

-kwag

As you say, this is off-topic, so I replied here.

*** Post deleted *****

@Neo-Neko,

I'm tired of your comments, and they really serve no purpose on this site.
Go post whatever you want somewhere else, but not here.
We have higher standards, and we don't have to listen to your childish "stupid" comments.
You have been deleted from this site permanently, and anyone else from the minority of "your group" making such comments, will be deleted too.

-kwag

@Kwag,

I've seen several stupid posts and no one has been deleted. I guess stupidity is not an absolute concept, which does not preclude anyone from being "absolutely stupid" of course.

I don't know what you mean by that "minority group", and since the post was deleted I don't know what is considered "stupid" in this forum either.

I only ask that if you eventually ever consider myself in any of those two undefined categories, you be so kind to warn me first before removing my account.

Cheers,

Exactly You don't know
I was waiting (and expecting) exactly that kind of answer
Since the "FitCD" forum was deleted some time ago, nobody can judge us for our opinions about shh (and the complete GPL topic, related to this particular issue), because "You don't know the other side of the story"
But here, everyone who read some of his posts, clearly remembers the issue, and that's why we know what is considered stupid (and inmoral, as in this particular case)

Cheers,
-kwag

@ r6d2
hy my friend ...i never had (i never will) problems with you and
like i wrote in pm you're a special person,then as a friend answer me:

what do you think about this phrase posted:

"I see you are still a glutton for punishment"
this phrase is not for you and you never posted like this.
one person posted to another person.
2 situations:
what feel who is writing this and how feel who is reading this?
why someone wrote this words to another member?

Look at your posts on this site. You've contributed in other areas too
The minority I refer to, are the ones who have registered here, just for the purpose of posting on this thread exclusively, because they just "believe" blindfolded, on something, without even considering other things.
All they said is that no matter what condition, the GPL must be followed.
That's what I was refering to a "minority".

-kwag

And after that if someone can tell me what's reasonable time please
Or why some members on these forums are sometimes somewhere else know as morons, criminals, etc...
I don't know what was posted here as it was already deleted when I got here, but as some say, it's not a question of if it's even fair.
It's a question of... licensing
Cheers

__________________
Rui

Uh...

Er... I didn't post "no matter what", you are right. But about the GPL thing... You know what I think since we had an interesting private conversation about the topic of this thread. According to your comment quoted above, I seem to fit better in the minority group.

However, I did post a "sincerity drill" a few pages back which did not get any comments, and OTOH stupid assertions got plenty of rating.

Then I was affraid that sincerity was less important than stupidity in this forum. But ultimately I think your point is that anyone can have an opinion here, even if it is "comply no matter what", but you rather not have it expressed stupidly.

Or in other words, ask someone to comply with what he offered to comply, even if you are a minority, is not stupid itself, or is it?

Anyway, since the matter at hand has been settled already, and muaddib has decided to comply with GPL "no matter what", by removing Moviestacker from public access, I don't think we should dig into that any longer. Unless my account is in danger too.

I hope muaddib has recovered his peace of mind now and that developing Moviestacker further becomes fun, challenging and interesting again for him.

To bring some humor to this thread, I can tell you something about "reasonable". In my country, the Transit Law states that at every moment you must drive your vehicle at a speed which is both "reasonable and prudent according to the transit conditions".

When catched speeding, I have never tried to argue with the officer if my speed was "reasonable". The radar can tell it was not within the allowed limits.

PS: @jorel, I have a position on the written language thing you mention, but I guess it deserves a separate topic. Proper forum culture is hard to grasp for many reasons. It's a quite interesting topic. We can came to that later.