Quantcast Starting advice for capturing PAL VHS? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
03-10-2017, 09:29 AM
glazuna glazuna is offline
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Hello everyone!
I am new to the VHS digitization club. Bought myself a Samsung V6700 VCR yesterday for $30 and on the way is a used Diamond ATI TV Wonder HD 600 PCIE card also for $30.

I plan to convert multiple PAL VHS tapes and with a good enough quality so I can upload it on YouTube and for other file sharing tracker sites. The old question of how will my card deal with PAL and is there anything else besides AVI format that will support it?

This forum has loads of information in it, I've spent the last 2 days reading trough and realized that my capture card choice wasn't that bad, right? Would I especially benefit if I go with another ATi style card say "AIW" ones or is this TV wonder just as good? I've seen the results of using stuff like "EZ cam" and it's fake copies and I was amazed that such a crappy image can be produced . So I am hoping that my setup will be capable of providing much better results.
Is my VCR a good one to do things like that and should I eventually get a different card? Would I seriously benefit with anything else in the price range of old ATi cards?

Thanks in advance
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  #2  
03-10-2017, 01:02 PM
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- That VCR is not good.
- You'll need a TBC between the VCR and capture card, else it will drop frame and/or simply refuse to capture.
- The capture card will be fine.

The ATI 600 USB cards are a suggested card. The ATI All In Wonder (AIW) cards will yield somewhat better quality, and have more options, but it has tradeoffs. Namely requiring a Windows XP desktop system (PCI, AGP or PCIe).

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  #3  
03-10-2017, 04:41 PM
glazuna glazuna is offline
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I'll try to sell that VCR and get something with TBC on the suggestion list, if that is what you mean?

Any recommendations on the budget but still good external TBC?
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  #4  
03-11-2017, 02:40 AM
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Since it's only $30, keep it. Sometimes an old VCR can have uses with uncooperative VHS tapes. But it should not be the general-use machine. That should be something better for capture.

There are several good PAL JVC units available.
See: VCR Buying Guide (S-VHS, D-VHS, Professional) for restoring video

An external TBCs run about $400 shipped right now.
If you want to gamble on the ability of an old broadcast unit (which may or may not work as you want it), you can find one for about $100-150. Most of those have issues with VHS, as it was meant for broadcast sources.
The known-bad AVT-8710/CTB-100 sells for about $250.

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  #5  
03-15-2017, 08:16 PM
glazuna glazuna is offline
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I've read that some people now use pass trough DVD say panasonic ES10 (You hook up the output of your VCR to digital video stabilizer and then to DVD inputs and DVD outputs to the input of your capture card) instead of external TBC. Supposedly to work better than any TBC-1000 or other overpriced mostly faulty TBCs.

Here is the source:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...ecommendations

Is this legit?

Last edited by glazuna; 03-15-2017 at 08:57 PM.
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  #6  
03-15-2017, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glazuna View Post
Supposedly to work better than any TBC-1000 or other overpriced mostly faulty TBCs.
Here is the source: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...ecommendations
Is this legit?
No. That advice is bad.

Orsetto is a nice guy, but is very negative about VCRs and TBCs and capture cards (anything, really), and sometimes doles out inaccurate advice as a result. The world of capturing is not as dire as he says. It reminds me of Trump's inauguration speech, where he acted as if the USA was post-apocalyptic. It's hyperbole.

SameSelf is a troll. Ignore what he says. Again and again, he has proven zero knowledge of video, and his posted results are very poor. He doesn't know his ass from his elbow. This is common knowledge among long-time VH members.

The ES10/15, and other passthrough devices, have flaws. For starters, those DO NOT prevent dropped frames. DVD recorders are intentionally crippled to allow Macrovision. As such, TBC-like functional varies widely, with most recorders having nothing at all. The ES10/15 was special, and is very strong at visual in-frame timing correction, but has other side effects (especially posterization). The signal is still dirty, not 100% synced (aka external frame sync TBC).

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  #7  
03-16-2017, 03:57 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glazuna View Post
I've read that some people now use pass trough DVD say panasonic ES10 (You hook up the output of your VCR to digital video stabilizer and then to DVD inputs and DVD outputs to the input of your capture card) instead of external TBC. Supposedly to work better than any TBC-1000 or other overpriced mostly faulty TBCs.

Here is the source:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...ecommendations

Is this legit?
It works with the right DVD unit, but you have it hooked up incorrectly. It should be:

VCR -> DVD pass thru -> external frame-TBC -> capture device

The pass-thru is used mainly for its line-level tbc function. A line-level TBC always precedes a frame-level TBC. The pass-thru does have some nominal frame-sync capability but not as powerful as a dedicated external frame-level TBC.

It's a shame you missed the main thread of posts and tests that dealt with a great many pass-thru issues: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...hat-do-you-use.
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  #8  
03-16-2017, 04:14 AM
glazuna glazuna is offline
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I actually read that thread aswell, but it being old I thought maybe the opinion has changed, since some say thath ES10/ES15 are all you need, no reason to buy high price external TBC, while others say that it cannot replace the functions of TBC-1000 and similar units.

Would maybe ES15 be able to at least be a substitute for a true TBC until I save some money to get the real deal, since ES10 is supposed to be to harsh in noise reduction?

I have a HR S7600 VCR now.
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03-16-2017, 07:03 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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The 7600 has a built-in line tbc and fairly stable playback (if in good condition). So a pass-thru isn't required for that type of tbc. But a line tbc is not the same thing as frame timing sync. If that sync is off, you can probably survive with the nominal frame sync capability of an ES15 or ES10 -- not as powerful as a dedicated frame tbc, but better than bad sync. The pass-thru won't defeat copy protection, if that's a concern.

The aggressive noise reduction in the pass-thru should be turned off, especially since DNR in the 7600 is pretty aggressive on its own. In my own experience, I had a couple of aged and damaged tapes in such bad shape that the dirty frame sync signal generated copy protection artifacts in the capture setup. The frame sync in my ES10 wasn't powerful enough to correct it, so an additional frame level tbc was added after the ES10. I was using the ES10 for line tbc pass-thru with a non-tbc VCR. If you encounter that situation with an ES10 used for frame sync, you either have to add a frame tbc or have the tape captured by a pro service shop, of which digitalfaq is one such provider.
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  #10  
03-16-2017, 01:39 PM
glazuna glazuna is offline
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Ok from what I understand I would especially benefit with external TBCs when having Macrovision tapes? Thing is I can get ES10/E15 for as little as $40, but TBC-1000 goes for $260 untested. I bought the JVC HR S7600 for $80 delivered.

If there is no other way then yeah I will have to buy TBC eventually
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  #11  
03-17-2017, 11:32 AM
glazuna glazuna is offline
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One more thing, is the T1-TBC any good? I've read that those made after 2010 are bad, but will it be good enough or am I better off with the ES 15/10 than that?

Let's say that I have a 20 year old VHS tape without macrovision that has never been run, I put it in my HR 7600 and start to capture without the external TBC, straight to the ATI TV Wonder 600 PCIE card. Would there be problems?
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  #12  
03-20-2017, 03:19 PM
glazuna glazuna is offline
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Anyhow.. I ended up buying a TBC - 1000
Here it is:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DATAVIDEO-MO...vip=true&rt=nc


What kind of power supply do you EU guys use for it?
Any particular things that TBC1000 is prone to failing? It is after all untested as most units on Ebay are under $300
But I'm sure the price was worth it even if I'll have to get it repaired.

Last edited by glazuna; 03-20-2017 at 03:29 PM.
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