Quantcast MPEG Editor Info: Womble MPEG-VCR vs MPEG Video Wizard vs VideoRedo - digitalFAQ Forum
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  #1  
03-19-2005, 02:04 PM
mitch mitch is offline
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I just completed going through the help manuals and using the evaluation versions of the Womble Multimedia editing tools "MPEG-VCR" and "MPEG Video Wizard", and the DRD Systems editing tool "VideoReDo". Both sets of tools appear to be excellent, however I went with Womble due to a promotion they are apparently running. If you enter the coupon code "mvw2005new" with your order, you can basically get both of their tools for the price of one ($50 off the total price of $119.95). I found this information from a post on VideoHelp.com and don't have any further details about this coupon code as to if/when it expires, but it worked for me today when I placed my order online.

For those who only need to cut commercials from TV shows, the MPEG Video Wizard is not really needed, but if you would like to do a little more (work with transitions, etc.), it seems to be pretty nice. I doubt I will use (or even want to use) all of its features (not planning to mess with the filters), but I will probably use some of the transitions and associated features. After doing some transition tests (using fairly simple transitions), I didn't see any obvious A/V sync issues, etc.

Anyway, I hope this helps some folks!

P.S., web links are:
http://www.womble.com/
http://www.drdsystems.com/VideoReDo/
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  #2  
03-25-2005, 04:39 AM
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Here is a correspondence between myself and Womble Multimedia Technical Support, in case others might have similar questions. The current release of these tools is 12/22/2004: (with replies)

Quote:
Hello,

I recently purchased your MPEG Video Wizard product (3/19/05) and have the following questions regarding functionality. Some questions may apply to MPEG-VCR as well.

1. MPEG GOP Fixer, Video and Audio PTS
--------------------------------------
The MVW help manual states, "Video and audio Presentation Time Stamps are 33-bit integers inserted in an MPEG stream to allow an MPEG decoder to synchronize the decoded audio sound with the decoded video image display. Those PTS values should match the playback time length of the decoded audio sound with the video frame rate. When they are in error, the MPEG movie cannot be played correctly, and the audio and the video will be out of sync. The GOP fixer tool will correct those PTS errors based on its calculation from the complete audio data. It will only modify the erroneous 33-bit integers."

Question: Assuming you have a few missing video frames in a file and no missing audio frames (or vice versa). Would the GOP Fixer just renumber the referenced frames so they will be in sequence again, or would the GOP Fixer also throw out associated audio frames where the video frames are missing (as well as renumber the frames) in order to keep the whole file in perfect synchronization?

Yes, just renumber the PTS time stamps. No data will be deleted or added, except the modification of the bits corresponding to the PTS time stamps.

2. Audio Editing (using the sound line)
---------------------------------------
When using the sound line editor and only changing a small amount of audio (with respect to the overall length of an A/V clip), the "Details" button on the Export screen implies that the audio in the whole clip is re-encoded (audio line for the whole clip is displayed red instead of only the actual (small) part that was edited). Can you confirm if the audio in the whole clip is re-encoded instead of only the part that was changed?

The audio for the whole clip will be re-encoded. This is to avoid the problem of a possible audible discontinuity near the crossing point, if only the modified part is re-encoded.

3. Options (observations)
-------------------------
There appear to be some items included in the Options screens that are not listed in the help manual.

Yes. The help manual needs to be updated.

> Examples:
> Preview/Hardware Video Overlay Acceleration
> AVSync (whole list)
> KeyMap (whole list)
> Export/MPEG-1 audio encoder

Thanks for pointing out the list of items.

4. Log Reports
--------------
Are there plans to add log reports (that may be saved in text files, for example) for items such as those in the Tools area (GOP Fixer, for example)?

No. But I have added your suggestion to the list of features to be considered for a future update.
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  #3  
04-16-2005, 01:59 AM
mitch mitch is offline
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Additional note regarding audio editing using the sound line editor in MPEG Video Wizard:

I have found a way to keep the tool from re-encoding the audio for the whole clip when only a small audio segment is modified. Just make cuts around the the segment to be modified. Per the Export function's "Details" screen, only the audio between the "cuts" will be changed. You may need to test the modification however to check for audible discontinuities at the crossing points.

Cheers!
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  #4  
04-18-2005, 03:05 AM
strangepork strangepork is offline
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very good read, i use videoredo, but only to cut from mpegs. Its nice to know the extra technical stuff.

bravo...
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  #5  
10-02-2005, 03:41 PM
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I recently ran into some A/V synchronization issues with Womble MPEG Video Wizard, which I had never experienced before. By trial and error it appears that I also may have found a "work around" for these issues. LS please provide your comments if you wish. Here are the details:

I have been in the process of transferring 8mm home movies from previous vacations (mostly national parks) to DVDs. All of my previous videos have been about 2 hours in length (using 2 hr. 8mm tapes as source) and I have found the MPEG2 encodings (352x480, using ATI-AIW 9000 Pro & MMC 9.03) to be about the right size to put on single layer 4.7GB DVD blanks. Using one of the nice features of MPEG Video Wizard, I developed a "The End" title transition that I have been using at the end of all of my edits. As I have gotten better using MVW, I have also been using more simple fade ins and fade outs between scenes as well as fairly extensive use of the sound line editor (for ex. to dampen background automobile noise from footage taken from near the road). This has always appeared to work well.

While recently working on a total of 6 (approx. 2 hour) videos from a previous vacation, I decided to break up some of the videos for better distribution for authoring, etc., so I made some preliminary exports from MVW without the "The End" title transition. Not expecting any problems, I went ahead and performed all "editing" (fade-ins/outs and sound line edits) for all videos prior to breaking them up. I noticed on practically all of my videos that A/V was out of sync by about 1 second (very noticeable). Very perplexed and disappointed (as I had spent many hours "editing"), I wondered how this could be. Not wanting to "start from scratch" with re-editing, I tried several ways to try to fix this (as MVW does not have an A/V "slider" function like VideoReDo where you can pretty easily fix A/V sync issues). I ended up finding that temporarily adding my "The End" title transition to the end of all of my preliminary exports appeared to fix the problems! Therefore it appears that when you fairly extensively edit a video/clip with MVW you can (and probably will) create A/V sync issues, but apparently adding a temporary file/clip/title to the end prior to exporting (and then cutting this file/clip/title off before a final export), it appears to fix the problems (apparently locks the sync back in from the previous drift).

Note: I am using the Dec. 22, 2004 release of MVW. I have noticed from http://womble.com/update.mvw/index.html that there have been a couple of later releases, but per review of the release notes, there do not appear to have been any recent bug fixes for A/V sync issues.

P.S. - I will have some additional observations/questions regarding fades that I will plan to add soon to this topic.
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  #6  
10-03-2005, 06:19 AM
strangepork strangepork is offline
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VideoRedo offers a quickstream fix, which i run everytime, it could probably shave off some time for you. Here is the info about it taken from help files.

Quote:
This dialog is used to re-multiplex an MPEG2 program stream. It will copy the input file to the output file through the VideoReDo stream processing routines. This means that all the time stamps in the output file, such as PTS and GOP headers, will be re-calculated. In addition, all the processing parameters as specified on the Advanced Stream Dialog will be honored as well. In other words the output file will be MPEG2 compliant file.

The key purpose of QuickStream Fix is to re-align the time stamps in the output file. Sometimes, video captured from DVB Satellite or sourced from DVD VOB or VRO files may have internal time stamps that are not sequential. When you normally open a file in VideoReDo it will search for these non-sequential time stamps and handle them gracefully. Occasionally it is unable to do so effectively and the QuickStream Fix function will prove useful
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  #7  
10-04-2005, 05:43 AM
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It sounds like there was some sort of PTS corruption, either before or during the editing. I would surely upgrade to a newer version in this case. As I just demonstrated (with the "PTS" info), a patch to fix something like a/s sync issues may be described in other terms.

I like Womble MPEG-VCR the most. I rarely have problems. I can record with pretty much any DVD recorder or capture card I own, or encode with any encoder. Can edit and export with no issues.

VideoRedo I like next best, although I'd like to note sometimes it require a quickstream fix when I think none should have been needed. Womble doesn't need it, and the file edits and even authors A-OK. However, when you do truly need it, that's a great feature.

MPEG Video Wizard, I've never liked the interface. I only use it to repair corrupt Panasonic DVD recorder streams. MVW converts the flawed AC3 to not-flawed MP2, and maintains sync. It's good, just not for me. I've never heard of a sync problem with it.


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  #8  
10-06-2005, 02:07 AM
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Here are the additional observations/questions regarding fades that I mentioned previously...

I have noticed that fade behavior using MVW during playback on my PC (from within the editor itself or using a decoder such as PowerDVD after burning the disk) appears to be different than playback using my DVD player (Phillips DVP642) and TV. This is especially true for shorter fades. With playback on my PC, the fades (fade-ins/fade-outs) are always perfect (exactly as I have designed them). However with playback on my DVD player and TV, the shorter fades (especially) appear to be more akin to "blips" than fades. I have tested the differences by stepping through the frames during playback and have found that the fades (shorter fades especially) using the DVD player/TV do not even fade down to black. They only fade down part way and then go back to full intensity. The total number of frames within the fades also appears to be less than those used within MVW when I added the fades. I generally use the "standard" method to add fades in MVW including segmenting the video, right clicking within the chosen segment (on the timeline), choosing "Fade", and inputting the video and audio time settings.

Note: The purpose for my fade-ins/fade-outs is to use longer fades for transitions from one national park/vacation site to another and shorter fades between scenes within a national park/vacation site in order to implement a smooth enjoyable viewing experience. However this "different" fade behavior tends to be more startling to the viewer than smooth. I'm wondering if I should go back and either increase the length of all of my shorter fades or just eliminate them altogether.

I have noticed from some comments in one of the MVW forums http://www.mpegvideowizard.com/surfs...rums/viewforum.php?f=2 that supposedly MVW only encodes transitions in frame mode and does not (yet) support field mode. I have no idea if these comments are legitimate, I just noticed that they're there and am curious as to if this might be affecting my fade-in/fade-out issues. As with many forums (these included), you have to sift through the opinions and try to analyze the objective observations.

Thanks again for your help!

P.S. - I understand MVW is not really your most favorite application. I mainly use it because the multi-part/multi-feature timeline is very handy for working with fades, the sound line editor, and other features such as title transitions.
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  #9  
10-06-2005, 05:33 AM
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DVD does not have a "field mode" anyway. Whoever said that is talking non-sense. Although interlaced is technically fields, the MPEG-2 DVD-spec video is encoded as frames (please don't ask me to explain this, as I'll get confused merely trying to write it out ... one of those smile-and-nod sort of facts). In fact, that forum has a lot of bad answers/information and a lot of whiney people (Internet trolls) to boot. Sad.

I would have to almost see this clip to understand it. It simply sounds like the fade is not dark enough?

I'm not exactly sure anymore (if I ever knew) what you source is, what the capture device is, or what your goals are, but with editing, I prefer the robustness of something like Adobe Premiere (or the cheaper Adobe Premiere Elements, although it only does 720x480 resolution source/output).

I do know that Womble MPEG-VCR from an old 2004 edition was buggy on transitions (fade to black), but the 2005 version corrected this.



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  #10  
10-12-2005, 02:41 PM
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Per further investigation, it appears that the fade issues are perhaps due to my DVD player (Philips DVP642/37). Reasons are as follows:

I took my disks and tested/played them on a neighbor's DVD player (CyberHome model CH-DVD 402) and TV and they basically played fine (no "blips" on the short fade-ins/outs and the fades went all the way down to black). I then figured I should check the firmware for my DVD player to see if there have been any recent updates (I updated it to version 1109 a few months ago after I bought it). However I could not find firmware information/downloads for my unit on the Philips web site. Finding this strange, I contacted Philips Customer Service and was told that Philips had taken firmware information/downloads off of their web site for now, and could not (or would not) tell me why. They also could not tell me when firmware information/downloads would be available again.

So this situation is still somewhat of a mystery, but at least I know now that there appears to be nothing wrong with my editing (fades). ...

Here is information on my source, goals, etc.:
  • Source: 8mm composite (Sony CCD-TRV52 camcorder)
  • Encoding Hardware: ATI All-In-Wonder 9000 PRO computer graphics
  • Encoding Software: ATI Multi-Media Center version 9.03
  • Video Encoding: MPEG-2 DVD, 352x480 NTSC interlaced, 1 I frame/group, 4 P frames/group, 2 B frames/subgroup, Closed GOP, VBR, 4.03 Mbps max, 3.92 Mbps target, 99 Motion Estimation Quality
  • Audio Encoding: MP2, 48 KHz 16 bit stereo compressed to 256 Kbps
Goals: Home movie DVDs on a budget, using your recommended "budget" hardware & software (incl. Womble products). I'm currently trying to get the best "bang for the buck" with editing by using Womble MPEG Video Wizard as it has nice features for transitions, sound line editing, etc. (and as I got both MVCR & MVW for about the price of one with the aforementioned coupon code). I'm not serious (wealthy) enough about editing to purchase a product like Adobe Premiere (at least for now), but want to get all I can out of MVW, especially since I have been working with it for a while now and have learned its features rather well.

Thanks again for your help!
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  #11  
10-13-2005, 04:50 AM
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I have a feeling Philips is hiding something. Those decks have a lot of known flaws. They are not popular for quality, but solely because they were one of the first players that could not only be hacked easily, but also play back MPEG-4 (XVID and DIVX) files.

It sounds to me like your setup, your goals, and what you're doing in MVW is working out fine.

It just happened to be you got a stubborn player. We all own one of those. Eventually they get relegated to the garage, the basement, the kids, the kitchen, etc.

If you want a really solid DVD player, look at JVC and Toshiba. Maybe Pioneer or Panasonic. For cheap stuff, the Cyberhome lines.


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