Quantcast TBC-1000 causing spots on bright white scenes? - digitalFAQ Forum
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  #1  
06-19-2021, 07:05 AM
willow5 willow5 is offline
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Please help, I have a TBC1000 in conjunction with an FS200 (UK) and have noticed that on recordings with bright white scenes, it creates spots on these scenes.

How do I know it is the TBC? Well I simply unplugged the TBC from my workflow and the dots don't appear. Can anyone help me troubleshoot please?

Link here: https://we.tl/t-F0tvAuV9Hu
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  #2  
06-20-2021, 11:43 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Attach samples clips to forum posts. Then I can answer.

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  #3  
06-21-2021, 01:24 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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What white flashes, I though those are lighting effects on the scene, By the way your chroma is way oversaturated and the MPEG compression is horrible.
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  #4  
06-21-2021, 01:26 PM
willow5 willow5 is offline
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Here is a sample @lordsmurf

@latreche34, what do you mean that the MPEG compression is horrible and the chroma is oversaturated ? I did not change any settings, these are using the ATI capture card software


Attached Files
File Type: mpg Transferred from camcorder 02 001.mpg (22.92 MB, 18 downloads)
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  #5  
06-21-2021, 03:12 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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You should capture lossless, tone down the chroma, then compress to your final format, Oversaturated chroma make compression algorithms go nuts when capturing and encoding on the fly. What white spots? can you take a still and point to the spots with an arrow?
Is this a SECAM tape?
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  #6  
06-21-2021, 03:21 PM
willow5 willow5 is offline
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This is a PAL tape. The spots are only visible when I watch the file on a TV (as opposed to a computer monitor).

I don't want to capture in lossless as I don't have that much hard drive space and also not familiar with how to post process using other tools.
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  #7  
06-21-2021, 03:46 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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Well then it's a playback issue not a capture issue or TBC issue. Try another way of playing back the file to see if the TV is still exhibiting the same problem.
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  #8  
06-21-2021, 03:51 PM
willow5 willow5 is offline
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Thank you. However, the spots are not visible when I remove the TBC from the workflow
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  #9  
06-21-2021, 04:56 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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Well, We can't help if we don't see the problem.
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  #10  
06-21-2021, 05:05 PM
willow5 willow5 is offline
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I understand, did you try to play the file on a regular TV so far?
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  #11  
06-21-2021, 05:51 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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No, I don't think I will go that far, The file looks fine to me besides the harsh compression artifacts and chroma over saturation. If you said you see artifacts it's your job to present them here not me going looking for them for you.
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  #12  
06-22-2021, 04:39 AM
willow5 willow5 is offline
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Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately I haven't found a way of demonstrating where the artefacts are using still frames or any other techniques. I even tried filming the TV but the colour dots are not picked up by the camera. Not sure how else I could demonstrate this effectively...
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  #13  
06-23-2021, 03:16 PM
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On frame 96, and some immediately before and after, I see luma flashing brighter per field. But is that the content?

This is a terrible video sample. The only flashes I see are the content itself.

Ugh .. Hanson. --- I can hear the Beavis & Butthead commentary in my head now.

Perhaps you need to extract and post some stills. Because I don't quickly see what you refer to.

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  #14  
06-24-2021, 03:35 PM
willow5 willow5 is offline
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Here are some stills from a different video, I can now see the spots in these stills


Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1.jpg (149.2 KB, 16 downloads)
File Type: jpg 2.jpg (166.0 KB, 9 downloads)
File Type: jpg 3.jpg (164.7 KB, 6 downloads)
File Type: jpg 4.jpg (164.8 KB, 2 downloads)
File Type: jpg 5.jpg (159.5 KB, 4 downloads)
File Type: jpg 6.jpg (145.9 KB, 1 downloads)
File Type: jpg 7.jpg (147.7 KB, 2 downloads)
File Type: jpg 8.jpg (149.2 KB, 1 downloads)
File Type: jpg 9.jpg (148.3 KB, 5 downloads)
File Type: jpg 10.jpg (150.1 KB, 4 downloads)
File Type: jpg 12.jpg (149.2 KB, 3 downloads)
File Type: jpg 13.jpg (149.0 KB, 2 downloads)
File Type: jpg 14.jpg (150.1 KB, 1 downloads)
File Type: jpg 15.jpg (146.1 KB, 3 downloads)
File Type: jpg 16.jpg (155.2 KB, 2 downloads)
File Type: jpg 17.jpg (155.8 KB, 3 downloads)
File Type: jpg 18.jpg (151.5 KB, 2 downloads)
File Type: jpg 19.jpg (154.1 KB, 3 downloads)

Last edited by willow5; 06-24-2021 at 03:47 PM. Reason: Update
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  #15  
06-24-2021, 03:52 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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What spots , can you circle one or point to it with an arrow using MS Paint app. What each picture of those suppose to represent? I don't see any difference between those pictures, I see chroma blatches from weak chroma RF that can be addressed with LTBC/DNR.
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  #16  
06-24-2021, 03:56 PM
willow5 willow5 is offline
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Ah ok so this is chroma blatches instead of spots? To me they look like spots but maybe my terminology is incorrect. How can I cure this problem please? I am using an FS200 which has the LTBC enabled
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  #17  
06-24-2021, 06:50 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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Those are in the tape and has nothing to do with TV or TBC-1000 as you claimed to be. Now to address those chroma stains it really depends on the origin of the recording, if it is a second gen tape than those are part of the video signal and cannot be removed, if the recording is first generation tape, a built in LTBC inside the VCR works better since it works out of the RF signal recorded on tape, unlike the LTBC built in a DVD recorder or the FS-200 you have that works out of the already processed Y/C signal, big difference. Even worse a composite signal or a low end VCR. Nothing replaces the line TBC built in a VCR or a camcorder, Period.
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  #18  
06-24-2021, 07:12 PM
willow5 willow5 is offline
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Understood thanks. These are first generation tapes but I am already using a built in line TBC inside a Panasonic NV-FS200 as recommended on this forum and these stills were taken with it switched on. Can I do anything further?

Also, why is it when I remove the TBC-1000 from the workflow, the blatches are minimised and barely visible? This is what originally led me to believe it could be a fault with the TBC-1000.

Please accept my apologies for claiming this is a TV or TBC 1000 issue. I am still learning here

Last edited by willow5; 06-24-2021 at 07:46 PM.
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  #19  
06-25-2021, 02:20 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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Could be the Panasonic VCR electronic compoenet aged and needs recapping, but to assess that we need short clips of line TBC ON and OFF, If the frame TBC is causing this it could be that it needs recapping and/or removal of the distribution amp, We also need shrot clips of TBC-1000 ON and OFF to confirm that. So far you are asking questions but you havn't provided enough information for someone to help.
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  #20  
06-25-2021, 02:39 AM
willow5 willow5 is offline
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I understand sorry for the lack of information.

In order to make this more scientific, I will provide stills from 3 further scenarios:

1) LTBC off, TBC1000 off
2) LTBC on, TBC1000 off
3) LTBC off, TBC 1000 on

The 4th case of LTBC on, TBC1000 on is already included.

I will aim to do this later today. Thank you for your help
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