TMPGEnc: No Video After Encoding! - Page 3

rds_correia · #41 12-30-2006, 09:27 AM

You're welcome

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We're all here to help each other.
Like Karl said, always use Full Screen or Center and keep away from those "...keep aspect ratio" options.
Overscan - resized or overlayed?
POSIX OSes - Linux or BSD?
Music - Hard Rock or Grunge?
Fruit - Apples or Oranges?
It's all a matter of taste really.
With resized overscan you keep all the "video corners" that comes in the DVD but you get bigger top/bottom black bars on screen when you play it.
You can overcome the bigger black bars by zooming in on the picture but then you will be defeating the whole process of keeping the video corners because they will be hidden behind the TV set box

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With overlayed overscan you immediatly get rid of the video corners.
They will never be there behind the TV set box.
You cannot zoom out to see them if you wish.
Most hollywood studios shoot the videos baring in mind that ~10% of the image will not be shown on screen.
That means that whatever is hidden or actually not present in your reencoded movie is...disregardable.
I always prefer overlayed overscan.
But lately I have been choosing not to set overscan because LCD/Plasma TV sets now come without overscan factor!

That means that my old KDVDs, they all show an 8 pixels vertical black bars on both sides of the image when viewed in a LCD/Plasma tv set.
Hope I clarified it for ya

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Tutankhamun

Ok, I am setting up another movie to do and I would like to run it past all you folks first to make sure I got a grip on some of this stuff.

File information, Thomas Crown Affair, 4.3 AR 720x480 with forced film done in dgindex, loaded up d2v file into Paranoia, paused

then you pressed the auto crop frame because I can see it from your scrip

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Quote:

then selected 720x480 for resizing, checked Anamorphic to Non Anamorphic (since I got a 4.3 crt tv, read in a post to do non anamorp if you have a 4.3 tv)

I don't fully agree with that but again it's a matter of taste.
What if you change your TV set? You reencode the movie keeping it Anamorphic?
Nah, I like to keep it on the safe side and I go ahead and encode keeping it Anamorphic.
If I take the movie to my parent's to watch it on a Xmas evening (like I did last week) I can be sure it will look at it's best

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Quote:

, ITU option was checked by default, overscan factor to 3 (which gave me a PAR error of Zero)

That much overscan?
You sure?
Is it a small model?
21" maybe?
Otherwise it should be a OS 2.
My living room TV used to be a 28" (or 26"

) and it was OS 1.
My 32" is OS 1.
Don't know why but OS 3 sounds like too much

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But if you're sure then no probl.

Quote:

and checked resize not overlay and this is the script I got

dgdecode_mpeg2source("C:\DVD\thomas crown affair\tc.d2v",cpu=4)
BicubicResize(672,336,0,0.6,5,68,708,354)
Addborders(24,72,24,72)

Excelent script.
You could add LRemoveDust and LimitedSharpenFast to it.
Then it would look really cool!

But I guess you should leave that to later on when you have (re)mastered the KDVD process

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Quote:

I then loaded this script into tmpgenc and loaded the kdvd full d1 720x480 template and changed two things, first I changed under the advanced tab to full screen (was full screen keep aspect ratio)

There was your problem: keep aspect ratio

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Quote:

and I also changed under the video tab 4.3 (was set to 16.9) Thought I read if it was a 4.3 movie to select 4.3 and if 16.9 select 16.9!?

What do you mean by 4:3 movie?
Written on the DVD sleever?
Then that's a non Anamorphic movie.
Set Tmpgenc to flag to 4:3.
But what if your DVD said 2.21:1 on the sleever?
Then it would mean that it was Anamorphic.
Again keeping it in the "let's suppose" side of things, If it was Anamorphic you would either make a script keeping it Anamorphic or else you would do a Anamorphic to non-Anamorpic script.
With an Anamorphic script you would want to set tmpgenc to 16:9, the same as telling tmpgenc to leave the Anamorphic flag set to ON.
But with a non-Anamorphic script you would want to set tmpgenc to 4:3, the same as telling tmpgenc to set the Anamorphic flag to OFF.
That's basically only a flag.
That flag is read by the SAP when it starts reading so that it can decide what to do with the movie picture.
If the Anamorphic flag is set to ON it will actually vertically shrink the image so that people don't look like egg-heads

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By encoding it in Anamorphic state you let the encoder better analyze the movie picture.
The encoder will compress a little less thus occupying more media space but also looking slightly better when watched on the tv screen.

Quote:

Could someone please inform me if I am following correctly or did I mess up anything. I am trying to follow the new bus

And your doing a wonderful job catching the new bus

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Everything should be in place if your TV overscan offset is really 3.

Quote:

I was a little confused by an explanation about using the overlayed overscan saying you wont have to zoom to get rid of black bars on side (it was in a post I read titled Explain Overscan which i printed out and followed). But that is what I used and I got the black bars on the sides.

You got the black bars most probably due to the "...keep aspect ratio" option.

EDIT: can you believe the size of my posts?

I guess noone cares to read something this big, right?
One of these days I'll see one of my posts sliced in two because it doesn't fit in one phpBB page

Tutankhamun · #42 12-30-2006, 07:54 PM

Holy smoke rds, my butt started hurting and I only got about half way through your post

I have just hit the print button so that I can sit at other computer and go over my settings. Thanks for the explanations.

I dont know how to determine the aspects of dvd's, the case for thomas crown does not say what it is, it is a double sided dvd, one side is standard version (modified to fit your screen) and the other is widescreen. I was going by dgindex, it said 4.3, so that is why i set tmpgenc to 4.3 for video stream, as I said only cause that is what I read somewhere

My tv is a 32" philips magnavox, about 5 years old and is a regular crt, and man is it heavy

So let me ask about the overscan, if I use overlay do I have to set to either 0,1,2 or 3? Or is that setting only used if i select resize? The only reason I went to 3 is because that is where the PAR ERROR was equal to ZERO. I thought that was what I was looking for.

Ok, on the anamorph, leave it unchecked and put 16x9 back in tmpgenc.

I will check back in a little and see if there are any other recomendations before I hit the start button

Thanks for all the help

rds_correia · #43 12-31-2006, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tutankhamun

Holy smoke rds, my butt started hurting and I only got about half way through your post

I have just hit the print button so that I can sit at other computer and go over my settings. Thanks for the explanations.

I promise I'll try to make this one a much smaller post than the previous.
It's just that lately I seem to have a -v argument running in my head

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Quote:

I dont know how to determine the aspects of dvd's, the case for thomas crown does not say what it is, it is a double sided dvd, one side is standard version (modified to fit your screen) and the other is widescreen. I was going by dgindex, it said 4.3, so that is why i set tmpgenc to 4.3 for video stream, as I said only cause that is what I read somewhere

According to IMDB you should be holding a anamorphic AND pan/scan version of Thomas Crown.
That means you can choose which one to go with.
Probably you overlooked it on the ripping stage of the process.
Go back to dvddecrypter and check if there are any other PGCs with ~ same running size as the one you ripped previously.
In theory, you should always encode and watch the widescreen versions.
See for yourself http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0155267/dvd

Quote:

My tv is a 32" philips magnavox, about 5 years old and is a regular crt, and man is it heavy

So is my 1 year 32" Sony, I need a tow truck each time I need to move it

.

Quote:

So let me ask about the overscan, if I use overlay do I have to set to either 0,1,2 or 3? Or is that setting only used if i select resize? The only reason I went to 3 is because that is where the PAR ERROR was equal to ZERO. I thought that was what I was looking for.

Ohhhh, be affraid, be very much affraid

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No, I mean, overscan can't be easily explained simply because there is no scientific calculation you can do to say the overscan offset of a tv set.
You really have to try

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Try encoding a small 2 minutes clip with OS=0, then another small clip with OS=1, ... , and another one with OS=3.
Burn them as (K)DVD and watch them on the SAP connected to the tv set you need to find the offset.
Start with OS=3. Can you see black border on left/right margins?
If so move on to OS=2. Can you still see black borders on L/R margins?
If so move on to OS=1, etc...
Until you find an OS where you can't see black side borders.
Please acknowledge that if the movie is widescreen you will always see top/bottom borders

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That's why we set the overscan offset in the scripts.
And we do that no matter if we're doing a resized overscan or an overlayed overscan.
In the end there will be black borders on both sides of the picture no matter if we chose resized or overlayed.
Unless if the factor was equal to 0.
And no, you're not looking for an error equal to 0 as explained above.
There will always be a slight error in the resize no matter what.
I wouldn't get itchy unless if such error was > 0.1.
I really don't like it when it does that because I start to notice the distortion with my bare eyes.
Bottom line: let's face it, if I encode a cartoon movie for my son and he will watch it most likely in the bedroom tvset I always encode the KDVD with overlayed offset equal 2 because that's a cheap and old 15" tvset with OS=2.
That way I am saving some extra bits to be used in the image that would always be shown on screen.
But if I encode a regular romance/action/sci-fi movie I always set it to OS=0 because that way if I buy a Plasma I will get to see the whole image instead of black borders on the sides

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Quote:

Ok, on the anamorph, leave it unchecked and put 16x9 back in tmpgenc.

Exactly! This way you tell tmpgenc that the movie is still anamorph after the avisynth filtering/resizing.
But if you'd want to encode to non-Anamorph then you would leave the "anamorph to non-anamorph" box unchecked in PARanoia and you would set tmpgenc to 4:3.
By so you'd be telling tmpgenc that the movie is non-anamorph

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I see you have already caught the train

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Quote:

I will check back in a little and see if there are any other recomendations before I hit the start button

Thanks for all the help

Hope I got here still in time before you pressed start

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Tutankhamun · #44 01-02-2007, 02:09 PM

Ok rds, thanks for ALL the help!

Let me see if I got this straight,

First, keep all the movies I do anamorphic and leave the setting in tmpgenc to 16x9 no matter what, to avoid future re-encoding.

Second, keep the advanced tab set to Full or Center, not "keep aspect ratio"

Third, do the small clips to figure out the overscan! I might just do 1 and leave it

Fourth, i do not rip with decrypter, mostly fabdecrypter so I will have to find more information on finding anamorphic. Can I get the information in other programs like dgindex or paranoia?

Finally, I think I got it.

Thanks for all your help rds, I think I am getting it all. Since the holiday's are over, I will try and add some filters

By the way, you said in theory you should do the widescreen version, what if you have a full screen? I am assuming just to handle in the same manner

Oh, one other question, if I want to do 704x480, do I or can I still use the 720 x 480 template or do I have to change it. Dude this is so awsome getting on the bus again.

rds_correia · #45 01-06-2007, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tutankhamun

Ok rds, thanks for ALL the help!

Let me see if I got this straight,

First, keep all the movies I do anamorphic and leave the setting in tmpgenc to 16x9 no matter what, to avoid future re-encoding.

As said that's your choice.
Either keep it anamorphic or not as it pleases you the most.
Some of us prefer to convert to non-anamorphic because the output is still good enough and you save a lot of bitrate if you're doing multiple movie in one DVD

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Quote:

Second, keep the advanced tab set to Full or Center, not "keep aspect ratio"

Exactly!

Quote:

Third, do the small clips to figure out the overscan! I might just do 1 and leave it

Yep that's good practice.
But keep in mind that if you plan to watch it on a LCD/Plasma you will see left/right black borders if you set an offset other than 0 .

Quote:

Fourth, i do not rip with decrypter, mostly fabdecrypter so I will have to find more information on finding anamorphic. Can I get the information in other programs like dgindex or paranoia?

I really don't know.
Maybe PGCEdit of IfoEdit can give you that kind of info.
I do not master those tools so I really don't know.
Maybe Boulder or Phil can give you some more info.

Quote:

Since the holiday's are over, I will try and add some filters

You should try it.
Just honk if you need help with LRemoveDust or LimitedSharpenFaster.

Quote:

By the way, you said in theory you should do the widescreen version, what if you have a full screen? I am assuming just to handle in the same manner

From my own experience, most of the DVDs that carries a Full Screen also carries a Widescreen.
So I'd definitely go with the widescreen version.
But if your's is full screen only then yes, you can do everything as if it was a widescreen movie.

Quote:

Oh, one other question, if I want to do 704x480, do I or can I still use the 720 x 480 template or do I have to change it.

Yep, go ahead and use that 720x480 template.
Then go to the Settings>Video>Size and change the 720 to 704, just as simple as that.

Quote:

Dude this is so awesome getting on the bus again.

It is isn't it

Cheers

Tutankhamun · #46 01-08-2007, 01:04 PM

Thanks again for all the help! When I do start adding the filters I will surely post if I have any problems or questions amongst doing all the searching on the site that I have been doing lately.

I still never did find out what this was,

deblocking=(c 4) or whatever the exact phrasing is

If anyone could shed some light as I am not sure if I sould use this setting or not.

Thanks again.

Dialhot · #47 01-08-2007, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tutankhamun

I still never did find out what this was,

deblocking=(c 4) or whatever the exact phrasing is

This is the parameter "cpu" that you can see on the line :

Code:

dgdecode_mpeg2source("C:\DVD\thomas crown affair\tc.d2v",cpu=4)

value 4 means : deblocking on Y and C (luma and chroma), both vertically and horizontally.
You should read the html document that is delivered with DGIndex.dll.

Tutankhamun · #48 01-10-2007, 01:00 PM

Thanks for pointing me there Dialhot, I have been looking all over the site for info on this.

Thanks again

rds_correia · #49 01-14-2007, 09:06 AM

Sorry but I was out on a work trip and I didn't find a cyber-coffee shop

I am glad that you managed to catch our train

.
Next stop is trying to use avisynth filtering in your advantage.
That part I haven't mastered myself yet.
Good thing that most of my projects are KDVD (from multiple DVD sources)and that I found the LRemoveDust/LimitedSharpenFast combo very nice in those circumstances even if it's terribly slow.
Cheers

Tutankhamun · #50 02-12-2007, 01:08 PM

Just thought I would drop a line or two to let you know that I have done 7 dvd's with 2 movies on each and 3 with 3 shorter movies on each. Again thanks for the help.

So can I jack my own thread and ask if anyone could recommend some script lines for dv capture?

Sorry, I mean dv transfer! I have a canon z70mc and about 12 tapes I need to put on dvd. I did two about 6 or 7 months ago but I just used Mainconcept and upped the bitrate to fill one tape on one dvd, the easy way out! I was thinking if I did 2 two hour movies on 1 dvd ( with the help of kwag, dialhot and rds) I could put 4 of my daughter tapes on one dvd (4 hrs).

Can I use Paranoia to load the dv capture? By the way, I am in NTSC land. Thanks if anyone can help with a dv script.

Dialhot · #51 02-12-2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tutankhamun

JCan I use Paranoia to load the dv capture? By the way, I am in NTSC land. Thanks if anyone can help with a dv script.

Look at there:
http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13768

Tutankhamun · #52 02-13-2007, 12:52 PM

Thanks for the link. I shall read it after lunch