Quantcast FFmpeg: FFvfw Video Codec - Page 11 - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #201  
02-01-2004, 04:20 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Ah, ok, I missed that "D"

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  #202  
02-01-2004, 04:39 PM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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Alright then.

Just finished my first tests a couple of minutes ago. All I can say is !

Did a manual predicition to fit 2 ~120 min. movies to 1 DVD-R (easy task I know) and my desired sample size was something about 36mb. Now with ffvfw at Quality 100 Max. Quantizer 25 the file was at about 27 mb, and already looked just as good as the TMPGEnc sample I made.
We'll see how accurate prediction is, and how good the final encode will look! Now again I see VERY much space for possible optimizations here! Is MPEG-1 encoding with this Codec really that bad? I'd love to see that beautiul motion estimation deal with an ULBR Template.
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  #203  
02-01-2004, 05:09 PM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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Damn, how do I increase the filesize?

I'm already at Quality 100 and maximum Quantizer at 8. Filesize remains the same...
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  #204  
02-01-2004, 05:44 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellygoose
Damn, how do I increase the filesize?

I'm already at Quality 100 and maximum Quantizer at 8. Filesize remains the same...
Set Q MIN to 2 and MAX to 2.
Shorten the GOP size.

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  #205  
02-01-2004, 06:02 PM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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Well the max. Quantizer somehow is not recognised... It doesn't matter if you set it to 2 or to 25. Filesize stays the same.
I can't seem to reach an Average Bitrate above ~1700kb/sec. What I need would be 2100kb/sec. This sucks...
Although I gotta agree that quality is already superb...
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  #206  
02-01-2004, 06:28 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellygoose
I can't seem to reach an Average Bitrate above ~1700kb/sec. What I need would be 2100kb/sec. This sucks...
Although I gotta agree that quality is already superb...
I agree with you 100%.
I think I'm going to have a look at the quantisizer source

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  #207  
02-01-2004, 06:53 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Geez
Wouldn't it be nice if we could chat with Milan
That would save us a lot of time...
I've made a decision.
I'm not using tmpg again at least if things stay as they are.
I'm having the same quality/speed results with both encoders and I think ffvfw still has a lot
of potential to explore.
I don't even need tmpg to demux since I got my hands on bbtool19.
Anyway somebody having jerky playback after demuxing/muxing mp2?
I do sometimes and I haven't figured out why...
Maybe something to do with image processing by ffdshow.
I was trying to use noise and dct from ffdshow.
I'll try again doing it with avisynth.
Any other tool I can use instead of VdubMod?
C ya
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  #208  
02-01-2004, 07:14 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellygoose
Well the max. Quantizer somehow is not recognised... It doesn't matter if you set it to 2 or to 25. Filesize stays the same.
YEP! This sucks!

Try to change to "Quantizer" mode instead of Quality Mode, cause if quality = 100 that means in Quantisizer mode "only" Quantize 2! Try Quantize 1 but the Filesize could blow up!

But how does the picture look at Quality 100 ? Is it not ok? Do you just want to end up with a 100% filled up DVD-R?

Thats the point of that encoder ... you can't really determine the min/max bitrates or a good range of quality where the steps within a range do give good outputs for a good prediction.

IF you want end up in larger filesize with "sense", try to tweak at senseful parts of the encoding and in that case a "switching" to a std. mpeg matrix would be the best choice as your result will end up even sharper!

@rds_correia

Well chat with him? ok, but even a mail contact seems to be not possible. (I know what you meant)
Same thing like in case of Yusuf's ympeg. In here people are doing the biggest cross-world betatesting and almost no effincient contact is possible with the author, .... so we only can see/figure out Bugs but for further developement the author should be in real contact wih us or other testers.
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  #209  
02-01-2004, 08:30 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Good news to all
After playing around with this thing for a couple of hours, I've found how to increase the bitrates, way up to DVD levels (+8,000Kbps) on peaks.
These are the settings you need:





If you notice, I've turned OFF "Custom quantization tables", because KVCD's notch matrix just cuts off too many frequencies with this encoder. I'll revise that some other day, when I get to talk with Milan.
In the mean time, even though it says "one pass - constant bitrate", IT'S NOT
It's actually VBR, and the VBV buffer settings are correctly set with this mode ( a "feature )

Now to do some kind of prediction, just change the "Max quantizer difference", which I have set to a value of 10. The lower the number, the larger the file size. And vice versa.

Have fun
-kwag
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  #210  
02-01-2004, 09:15 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Well, maybe not for everyone, but for me, it's a big YES (At least for making DVDs. )
No KDVDs yet, until the matrix/CODEC issue is solved.

The following screenshots were taken from a sample made with the procedure described above.
NO FILTERS WERE USED
The full sample (~10MB) is here:
http://www.kvcd.net/ffvfw-high-action-sample.m2v
Can you find the Macroblocks





-kwag
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  #211  
02-02-2004, 04:05 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Hi Karl!

The "constante Bitrate" thought I also had yesterday night when I switched -also when capturing using my DC30- to ffvfw "XVID" Codec .... which is fast as hell! I did played with this codec also as here also do exist almost the same options in the quantizer sections as we do use when using the mpeg2 codec. I did choose CBR 6000kbit for capturing and I did recognise that there is still a VBR quantizer based AVG output. At high quality commercials for example it grows up to 5890kbit and on a bit unsharper and letterboxed movie broadcastings it decreases by itself the AVG to almost 4000kbit

My target with this codec (ffvfw mpeg2) is, to fit 3 movies in 704x576(480) on one DVDr in non-anamorph or two movies in anamorph state.

So do your last try as seen above BUT now trying to encode in anamorph! state with 8px borders on each of the sides and 16px on top and bottom as overscan as you'll end up with 2 movies (each ca. 130min) on one DVD-R.

I see you use "Trellis", did you recognise more quality by this?? On the old Build output got a bit worse.

Inc.



PS: Also a very good resolution if you will just view those KDVDs on Tv is to switch to 352x576(480) 1/2 DVD, ... I think with this encoder the results will also be awesome as the ffvfw mpeg2 ends up more sharp! Bit in such a case do also try to use std. matrix and NO DCTfilters as the stream will be horizontally streched on tv afterwards.

AND nice to here that the VBV issue seems to be solved .... Ill give CBR at mpeg2 mode this night a try too!
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  #212  
02-02-2004, 05:38 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Are you aware that DCTFilter is included in ffvfw


-kwag
If you want to go there, avisynth is also included in ffvfw so we can do whatever we used to (except resizing).
But there are also other things included : you already see noise, but you have also sharpening (asharp, msharp, warpsharp), levels, colorspace convertion, postprocessing (deblocking / deringing)...

In fact this codec can replace almost everything on your disc
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  #213  
02-02-2004, 07:22 AM
Dano Dano is offline
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FFdshow also has mplayer filters, lots of stuff to play with. The only thing it is sorely lacking is ivtc, but you could always do that from within vdub, not quite as good as decomb though. However, ffvfw compresses so well that the quality difference between 24fps and 30fps is barely noticeable at least at about 1500 kbps and up.
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  #214  
02-02-2004, 07:41 AM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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Geez, this codec rocks my socks

I'm currently encoding High Crimes anamorphic for KDVD output, but still with Quality Mode. Picture Quality of the sample was awesome for the size!
I'm using a Blockbuster Variance of 2.5, since it really has some nasty DCT blocks on flat surfaces even in the source. I hope I'm pleased with the results. As for the CBR mode: Will try that later tonight.
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  #215  
02-02-2004, 08:09 AM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Hi folks:
Hmmm... problem here .
I guess I should test first the CBR mode to see if this corrects the problem. I'll explain myself.
Encoded a 45 min sample (StarWars II) with MA script, One pass-constant quality 100, 720x576, 16:9. It took 2 hours and... but it worth the quality. No blocks on TV, and I even zoomed the image on TV and begun to see "stairs" only at 16x... .
BUT: during playback freezes the image from time to time . It remember me when I first tried to make SKVCD, that image froze a second and then kept playing. It looks like a high bitrate issue (but this happens at 2000-4000 kbps) or, more probably, a VBV issue. And as I read here that VBV goes down to 7... do you think that this can be the problem?. Has anybody had this problem during playback in their standalone?. I've never had this problem with KDVD before.
I'll try your new advise and new settings with CBR and see if the problem solves (since it manages VBV well).
BTW: what do you think is better, keep on scripting, or making use of ffvfw functions?. Don't just refer to blockbuster vs noise, but the rest: DCT, temporalsoftening, and so.
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  #216  
02-02-2004, 08:15 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitall.doc
And as I read here that VBV goes down to 7... do you think that this can be the problem?
It can. Freezing is one of the problem caused by a VBV buffer to low.

Quote:
Has anybody had this problem during playback in their standalone?
I think noone has the time for the moment to really watch a movie encoded ith ffvfw

Quote:
BTW: what do you think is better, keep on scripting, or making use of ffvfw functions?. Don't just refer to blockbuster vs noise, but the rest: DCT, temporalsoftening, and so.
I think avisynth will be better for information sharing ! It's hard to tell wich ffvw settings you use for a given sample where is very straight to put an avisynth script here.

But in words of quality, ffvfw includes the same sources than avisynth plugins, so I guess the result is the same.
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  #217  
02-02-2004, 08:26 AM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Thanx Phil
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  #218  
02-02-2004, 08:46 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
I think noone has the time for the moment to really watch a movie encoded ith ffvfw
The result of my last week was ONE movie burned effectively to CD-R ... the purpose of doing mpeg jobs.
The rest of the encoding jobs and therefore the time was dedicated to ffvfw ......
.....trying, trying, trying, failure, trying, tryin, trying, SUCCESS, trying, trying, trying, failure, trying, tryin, trying, SUCCESS,trying, trying, trying, failure, trying, tryin, trying, SUCCESS,trying, trying, trying, failure, trying, tryin, trying, SUCCESS,trying, trying, trying, failure, trying, tryin, trying, SUCCESS,trying, trying, trying, failure, trying, tryin, trying, SUCCESS,trying, trying, trying, failure, trying, tryin, trying, SUCCESS,trying, trying, trying, failure, trying, tryin, trying, SUCCESS,trying, trying, trying, failure, trying, tryin, trying, SUCCESS.

Means figuring out the best possible by tweaking and switching parameters.

Result: Headaik!!
And I gonna cure that by watching that one effectively burned Movie tonight.

PS: Yep,... my girlfriend still loves me and didn't leave me for that time taking chaos above
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  #219  
02-02-2004, 09:49 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
I see you use "Trellis", did you recognise more quality by this??
Yes I did. The sample above was encoded with the parameters shown, and it really makes a difference.
Quote:

PS: Also a very good resolution if you will just view those KDVDs on Tv is to switch to 352x576(480) 1/2 DVD, ... I think with this encoder the results will also be awesome as the ffvfw mpeg2 ends up more sharp! Bit in such a case do also try to use std. matrix and NO DCTfilters as the stream will be horizontally streched on tv afterwards.
Well, you can even use the KVCD matrix for 352x resolutions, because there is no need to use high bitrates, so in the case of 352x480(576), the encoder should work great and give far more compression than using the standard matrix.
Quote:

AND nice to here that the VBV issue seems to be solved .... Ill give CBR at mpeg2 mode this night a try too!
I'm sure you won't be dissapointed

-kwag
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  #220  
02-02-2004, 09:52 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellygoose
DCT blocks on flat surfaces
This is one area that need improvement on this encoder. As you did, using internal noise or adding Blockbuster, fixes the problem.

-kwag
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