Quantcast FFmpeg: FFvfw Video Codec - Page 14 - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #261  
02-03-2004, 06:45 AM
Anerboda Anerboda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
That is what I thought. Fortunally I managed to have the 2004 version to be installed and working.
I've got the same problem with the 2004 version, you said in a previous post that a service was mandatory, which service did you reactivate?

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  #262  
02-03-2004, 08:04 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anerboda
I've got the same problem with the 2004 version, you said in a previous post that a service was mandatory, which service did you reactivate?
Can't say ! I reactivate all services that weren't to see "if it fixes something". And as it did, I can't tell wich one was the problem

But, be sure first to have the dll msvcr70 and msvcp70 in the system32 directory of windows.
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  #263  
02-03-2004, 09:41 AM
Anerboda Anerboda is offline
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Thanks Phil, actually I didn't have the DLL's in my System32 folder, so I found them at first and placed them in the folder, and then it worked, thanks again.

Next I would like to know if anybody have compared the mpeg1's(KVCD's) produced by TMPGEnc to the mpeg2's (SKVCD, not DVD) from ffvfw, I mean m2v with a low enough bitrate to fit in one 80 min CDR.
I know ffvfw is considered superb in encoding DVD's, but has anyone produced SKVCD's (with notch-matrix) using ffvfw and compared these to KVCD produced by TMPGEnc?

I have read this thread (all 17 pages) 5 times, and maybe I've missed something, but I didn't find an answer to clearly remove my doubts.

Right now I'm doing some tests myself. I have encoded a 1:30 min sample in TMPGEnc targetting KVCD, and the same sample in ffvfw for SKVCD, both resolutions 480x576. In TMPGEnc I used a CQ of 65 which gave me a sanplesize of 14000 KB (too big), and in ffvfw I used one pass CBR with a bitrate of 1095 (average bitrate according to CalcuMatic), this sample was 11920 KB (very close to wanted samplesize).Used the Notch-matrix in both encoders.
Visually I didn't see any difference (I was looking at the encoded samples in VDubMod).
I hope that setting the CBR to average bitrate will hit the target of 750000 KB.....Doing a full encode right now....
3 hours and 20 minutes to go....

Anerboda
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  #264  
02-03-2004, 09:52 AM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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You can actually go a little (~200kb) over the Average Bitrate in CBR mode of ffvfw. This it what I experienced. Tell us your results!
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  #265  
02-03-2004, 09:58 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anerboda
I know ffvfw is considered superb in encoding DVD's, but has anyone produced SKVCD's (with notch-matrix) using ffvfw and compared these to KVCD produced by TMPGEnc?
I did test, and I do continue to make my KVCD with tmpgenc.

Quote:
I have read this thread (all 17 pages) 5 times, and maybe I've missed something, but I didn't find an answer to clearly remove my doubts.
All the thread is talking about KDVD, taht's why you didn't find your answer.

Quote:
I hope that setting the CBR to average bitrate will hit the target of 750000 KB.....Doing a full encode right now....
3 hours and 20 minutes to go....
The only problem is that the settings you put does not seems to have any usage !
Yesterday I did test with 8000 and 5000, thay both gave me the same sample size, and the peak in each one was over 8000 !
I did after that an encode with 2500, the file size was half it was previously but the peak was near 5000 !

If you plan to make KVCD with this, you can't be sure that you won't have a peak far above the limits allowed on a VCD (audio+video = 27xx (do not remember exactly)).


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  #266  
02-03-2004, 10:05 AM
Anerboda Anerboda is offline
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I didn't plan to make KVCD, but SKVCD, don't know if my standalone will accept peaks higher than 2720 or something like that.
But I viewed the m2v stream from ffvfw in bitrateviewer, and it showed peaks up till ~1800kbit/s and an average of 1045kbit/s, so maybe I could have raised the CBR to 1150kbit/s in ffvfw??
Waiting for my full encode to finish...

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  #267  
02-03-2004, 10:15 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anerboda
I didn't plan to make KVCD, but SKVCD
That is just playing with words. I guess that what you call SKVCD are 544*576 MPEG2 KVCD (in other words MPEG2 KVCDx3). All are KVCD.

Moreover, The word "SKVCD" does not, and never did, exist. Go to this page and see :

http://www.kvcd.net/dvd-models.html

You have KSVCD but no SKVCD.

Quote:
, don't know if my standalone will accept peaks higher than 2720 or something like that.
It won't.
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  #268  
02-03-2004, 10:20 AM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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Hmm... I just stumbled on another bug I think. In CBR mode, ffvfw does not seem to encode as 16:9 output, although it is set. BV says 4:3, and also PowerDVD plays it as 4:3. Well not a big deal, I can patch it via DVDPatcher, and then it works.
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  #269  
02-03-2004, 10:52 AM
Anerboda Anerboda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anerboda
I didn't plan to make KVCD, but SKVCD
That is just playing with words. I guess that what you call SKVCD are 544*576 MPEG2 KVCD (in other words MPEG2 KVCDx3). All are KVCD.

Moreover, The word "SKVCD" does not, and never did, exist.
I know, I just spelled it wrong, sorry. What I meant was a m2v stream in a resolution of 480x576.
My standalone plays perfectly KVCD's at 544x576, I was just curious if KSVCD at 480x576 encoded with ffvfw looked better...and perhaps if prediction with ffvfw was more accurate...
But I'll test some more...
And when I get a DVD-burner, I will try ffvfw with .m2v-streams in 704x576 resolution, until then I'll probably stay with TMPGEnc and KVCD.

Anerboda
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  #270  
02-03-2004, 10:58 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellygoose
Hmm... I just stumbled on another bug I think. In CBR mode, ffvfw does not seem to encode as 16:9 output, although it is set. BV says 4:3, and also PowerDVD plays it as 4:3. Well not a big deal, I can patch it via DVDPatcher, and then it works.
Jell, ... right thought

According to the encoding itself 16:9 or 4:3 means nothing to the image encoding way! Its just a flag where the decoder sees how to get the final resize/AR so it fits on Tv!

So its not important what ffvfw does according to AR, you just can set this afterwards using DVD Patcher.

If you want to encode anamorph, its just a resizing thing in i.e. Avisynth that the image itself will be squeezed (anamorph) 704x576 encoded ... and adding the AR flag afterwards.
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  #271  
02-03-2004, 11:33 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anerboda
I didn't plan to make KVCD, but SKVCD, don't know if my standalone will accept peaks higher than 2720 or something like that.
But I viewed the m2v stream from ffvfw in bitrateviewer, and it showed peaks up till ~1800kbit/s and an average of 1045kbit/s, so maybe I could have raised the CBR to 1150kbit/s in ffvfw??
Waiting for my full encode to finish...

Anerboda
When using lower resolutions, like 352x480(576) or 480x480(576), you won't get peaks of ~8,000.
They will be arounf half (~4,000).
You might want to use the notch matrix at these resolutions, and set your MIN and MAX Q to a value of 2.
Even set like this, the file size will be about half the size, as when you use the standard matrix, but the quality will be about the same because of the reduced resolution.
Yesterday, I did just that, and this is what you get:




So at that resolution, with ffvfw doing MPEG-2, we can do KVCDs.
At higher resolutions, we must use the internal matrix, which is fine for DVDs.
Or we can do KDVDs at half D-1 352x480(576) with the notch matrix, and it will look like the screenshot above.
Not as sharp as 704x, but still a blockless picture, even on high action scenes.

-kwag
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  #272  
02-03-2004, 11:35 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot

Moreover, The word "SKVCD" does not, and never did, exist. Go to this page and see :

http://www.kvcd.net/dvd-models.html

You have KSVCD but no SKVCD.
It's the other way around Phil
It's SKVCD

-kwag
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  #273  
02-03-2004, 11:58 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Arghhh....
















(if you are looking for me, I'm already out)
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  #274  
02-03-2004, 02:04 PM
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Hi Anerboda.
AFAIK rds_correia's point (and mine to), when he begin "Mencoder for windows" post, was to produce KVCD's with something faster than TMPG (CCE). When Dano pointed at ffvfw, I was only pointing in KVCD (MPEG1 or 2). I used ffvfw some time ago for Theora test, but i never realized that is a powerfull MPEG2 encoder.
I did some MPEG2 samples, but bitrate goes as high as ~4000 and above. I get a lot of underflows in bb, when muxing audio and video, but none without "Add SVCD scan offsets" and with "Align sequence headers". Files muxed this way are played perfect on Panasonic NV-VP30, but this baby eats everything alive I'm no specialist in this settings, so I can't say what they realy do. Some people here knows what for are they, ask them I now make full lenght 480x576 move and will se results tomorrow.

PS: I use quality mode, while CBR mode is useles for low bitrates
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  #275  
02-03-2004, 02:05 PM
bicho_visacoso bicho_visacoso is offline
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This post starts giving me headache... I'm lost. I've been trying ffvfw with 'constant bitrate' and the parameters from kwag but rising or lowering the Max quantizer difference doesn't makes the file bigger or smaller, it remains the same size.

But anyway, changing the bitrate and the GOP size (I had to set it to 23, 24 isn't accepted) I have done a 1h28m 4:3 movie in SKVCD that looks great and is played perfect in my player.

My question is... Where can I find any information on how quantizers affect quality? I want to change those values an try to find good ones or at least some that fits my needs.

And thanks for having discovered this codec, doing KDVDs is incredible!!! (and without size prediction as Kwag said) :P

I'm looking forward for a guide and an optimal script.
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  #276  
02-03-2004, 02:26 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Good news, and new finding

The problem with the matrix, and ffvfw, has been solved


Set the KBPS Bitrate slider to 6426
This will fix the VBV buffer size to 112, as shown in Bitrate viewer, and now bitrates will exceed 7,000Kbps with KVCD's notch matrix
All other parameters are set as in my previous post, with the last screenshots.

Now here's what you get with KVCD's notch matrix:

http://www.kvcd.net/ffvfw-notch-kdvd.m2v

If you encode a fast action sample, you'll see bitrates beyonf 7,000Kbps.
The sample above only goes up to around 2,000Kbps, because it's low action.

Enjoy
-kwag

Note: I'm calculating the correct bitrate value, to get the correct size for KVCD's which I think will now be possible with this correction.
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  #277  
02-03-2004, 02:41 PM
Prodater64 Prodater64 is offline
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Hi: Kwag, can you make a thread only for ffvfw KVCD and KDVD optimal config?
In this one, is to hard follow up all the changes.
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  #278  
02-03-2004, 02:48 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodater64
Hi: Kwag, can you make a thread only for ffvfw KVCD and KDVD optimal config?
In this one, is to hard follow up all the changes.
Sure will
Let me get some screenshots and I'll start a new thread.

Edit: BTW, for KVCD, the correct value to get a VBV buffer of 20 ( actually 40KB) as seen in Bitrate Viewer, is 1147
I'll explain in the new thread.

-kwag
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  #279  
02-03-2004, 03:11 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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@ Kwag
Quote:
Set the KBPS Bitrate slider to 6426
NICE! But the Bitrateslider (as I figured for myself now out) was up to now the only adjuster I could lower and higher the final filesize! Uops!
Cause the way you explained in your last pics didn't get my "prediction" working

But the Q curve of Bitrateviewer now in PAL ist straight and linear!!!

But I will look further!

PS: In that new CBR Mode the FPS encoding speed index decreases about 30%

Did you also check in the left right corner of your task bar, that little FFvfw tab!! There you can see the graph while encoding and see how much the quantisation will take!!!

NICE! By this I can now directly test the optimal qantisizing for encoding! Extreme coool!
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  #280  
02-03-2004, 03:20 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
NICE! But the Bitrateslider (as I figured for myself now out) was up to now the only adjuster I could lower and higher the final filesize! Uops!
Nope. Doesn't work that way. That was the "illusion we got, because changing the VBV buffer size, would also change the file size
Quote:
Cause the way you explained in your last pics didn't get my "prediction" working
Yep. You must change the quantizer values to get a file size change, and leave the bitrate slider set to the correct values shown, so the VBV value is constant for the required encode.

-kwag
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