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  #1  
01-14-2025, 08:48 PM
cuckoohaus cuckoohaus is offline
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Greetings everyone,

I purchased a Windows XP machine for the purpose of using it with my analog video capture hardware. I have zero experience with vintage computing. I've been able to successfully capture the video with the capture card and I am attempting to transfer it to an external at any speed faster than near 1 to 1 duration (video length to transfer time) as these files are large.

I've purchased a USB expansion card thinking I could get USB 3.0 transfer speed but learned after installing it that XP only natively supports USB 2.0. I then purchased a 1 TB Samsung SSD and Sata III cable but after initially getting XP to recognize it under disk management, converting it to dynamic disk and formatting it to NTFS I could not get either my Pro or Windows 10 Laptop to recognize this drive and no longer have format options available in my XP machine. I am now waiting for a 1 TB HDD to arrive to see if I have better results with a Sata III cable connected directly through one of the Sata ports.

Looking for any insight and suggestions on what I should considering doing to retrieve large 40-100 GB sized video files from an XP machine faster? Or am I essentially stuck at transferring at near 1:1 speed? I am including a short video of the inside of my tower in case it could provide insight on this machine. The person who sold it to me was able to install XP on the SSD boot drive and every suggestion he has recommended (expansion card, sata to SSD) has not worked.

I am including the specs of this PC in addition to the short video showing it's hardware. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you 🙏🏼

https://youtu.be/1K66u4flrNY?si=zG4oLIJeUsBrqsdR

- dell optiplex tower 390 series
- os: windows xp pro 32-bit sp3 version 2002
- processor: i5 2400 3.10 Ghz processor
- graphics card: amd radeon r7 200 series
- storage: 240 gb 2.5" sata III SSD (patriot burst elite brand)
- memory: 4GB Ram
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  #2  
01-14-2025, 09:20 PM
aramkolt aramkolt is offline
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You could power off the computer and disconnect the drive itself and plug it into a SATA to USB3 adapter, though It can be annoying to disconnect and reconnect, but hopefully you are only doing the transfers once your target drive is about full as opposed to transferring single files at a time.

Another option would be to use 10 gigabit ethernet and transfer the files that way if you can find a supported card that'll fit most likely a PCI-E slot if you have one available to you. I don't do much with ethernet file transfers, but it should be possible. 10Gbit ethernet won't be your bottleneck as SATA II maxes at 3Gbit/s and SATA III maxes out at 6Gbit/s, but since your drive is connected to the motherboard at SATA II rates, your best theoretical transfer speed is still 3Gbit/s assuming there are no other hardware bottlenecks which is 375MB per second.

Directly connecting a SATA to USB3 adapter will get you to 5Gbit/s or will transfer roughly 750MB per second, though actual performance will probably be a bit less than that.

They might even make a SATA switch where you can route data connections with buttons instead of unplugging things, but I haven't personally seen one of those, but if they did, you could just switch whether the drive was connected to the computer or your USB 3 adapter without having to phsically unplug the drive each time you wanted files off of it.
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  #3  
01-14-2025, 10:03 PM
cuckoohaus cuckoohaus is offline
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Thanks a million I am willing to try anything and everything at this point since everything else in my pipeline seems smooth and relatively efficient minus the real time tape capture and this step (transferring from my XP machine). I am more concerned about constantly plugging and unplugging my boot drive as I have over 100 tapes to capture. I figured if XP could recognize and work off an SSD as a boot I should be able to use one of the other Sata connectors on the motherboard but will see what I need to buy from NewEgg to facilitate transferring via ethernet. Thanks again!


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  #4  
01-15-2025, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuckoohaus View Post
I purchased a Windows XP machine
vintage computing.
FYI, XP isn't "vintage". XP systems are "legacy", still actively used for current tasks. When the system because nothing more than a curiosity, with almost zero usage value (example: Windows 2.11), then it's vintage. Antique is a 1970s Apple.

Why does this matter? Well, when you look up information on XP, you need to look for the right terms.

Quote:
I've purchased a USB
This was the mistake. Remove the drives from the XP system, and do transfers on a modern system. The new system can read older IDE/SATA drives via USB3 on the new computer, but the older computer cannot read newer SATA/SSD/etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aramkolt View Post
Another option would be to use 10 gigabit ethernet
No, not with XP.

Quote:
They might even make a SATA switch
That's getting too complicated. All risk, no reward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuckoohaus View Post
I am more concerned about constantly plugging and unplugging my boot drive as I have over 100 tapes to capture.
Rip out your 3.5" optical drive.
Buy this: https://amzn.to/4fZPJ0E
Use that.
You don't want to capture to your boot drive anyway. Always capture to separate drive.

I hope you're using a good capture card. What is it?

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  #5  
01-15-2025, 12:26 AM
cuckoohaus cuckoohaus is offline
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I have never added something to my cart so fast. You’re a legend Mr. Smurf . I am using an ATI TV Wonder USB 2.0. I bought this “XP Gaming PC” for around $300 off ebay as I don’t have any experience with building a PC. If there are any cables or any accessories you can think of please let me know as your word is highly respected. I began my entire analog capture journey from a youtube video (link included) who mentioned this forum and your name so it is an immense honor just to receive your insight. Thanks a milli! You’re a rockstar.

https://youtu.be/pKYNqZdqawc?si=5xGZGJasoE29ZrUI
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  #6  
01-15-2025, 01:12 AM
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Thank you.

For XP, 2tb max.
- If using 2.5" HDD, you can format on XP.
- If using SSD, you must format those NTFS on Win7/8/10/11, or (not suggested) Linux for NTFS. Don't use exFAT, that's a mess on XP.

What else? Well, you need good SATA cables, obviously. The bay connects with to motherboard with SATA cable, but the drive connects to in-bay connector.

Do not eject the XP drive while system turned on. In many cases, depending on XP version, the system also needs to be off to insert the drive. If you just eject the drive without thinking, SSD especially, the data can become corrupted. I even had an SSD fail after a bad eject. There's no instructions for this stuff, so just learn from my failures. Be safe, always off to eject/insert. Don't be impatient.

For the system where I edit/restore, I just use these: https://amzn.to/429PNI4
- For SSD only. (Ignore the "HDD supported", it's really not good for that.)
- For HDD, you need something else, usually just another identical bay there as well (which is what I do for my non-SSD).

I don't know who "Video Capture Guide" is, but he got much/most of his learning video from here, and as a result he's done some good videos. I'm glad you founud him, and not one of the many know-nothings running around Youtube.

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  #7  
01-15-2025, 02:13 AM
cuckoohaus cuckoohaus is offline
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Understood. Thankfully I have that same exact cable but should I return my 3.5” 1TB WD that’s arriving later today and get a 2.5” HDD instead? Ideally if I can get the Samsung 870 EVO SSD 1TB drive that I bought for this project that would be amazing so I will try that again with your instructions. I originally formatted that SSD in XP under disk management (it made me convert it to dynamic disk first) and used that same sata to usb cable to my other PC laptop but my Dell Latitude running Windows 10 would not recognize it so I assumed that SSD needed additional power that the ports on that specific laptop was not able to give it, or possibly a faulty cable. I’ve since swapped the Dell Latitude for a Lenovo P16 running Windows 11 just last week and will try formatting it there (for whatever reason my XP machine no longer gives me the option to format it anyway despite recognizing it under disk management).

Thanks again for all of your hard work and detailed insight. An entire community of enthusiasts would be incredibly lost without your insight ����
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  #8  
01-15-2025, 04:56 AM
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For me, it's about noise and heat. 3.5" HDD = max noise, max heat. So for me, no good for long-term capturing. I only use 3.5" HDD for archival now, short term power-up to copy/read. Anything in normal use is 2.5" HDD, or preferably SSD.

For capture, format SSD to 64k clusters ... except for Samsung EVO (4k tends to work fine).

In general, SSD can be a problem, due to fragmented nature of data writes. So you have to remember that most SSD will give issues past 50% full, the Samsung about 75%. So on 2tb SSD, you really only get 1tb before random dropped frames. HDD doesn't have this issue. Some systems are lousy, and just drop frames on SSD period. Those are more about SSD drivers, motherboard. Unfortunately, Dell desktop proprietary stuff isn't great for this (certain Dell laptops fair better, but those are non-XP Win7, thus non-AIW).

Sometimes decisions on "best" have to be weighed, pros vs. cons.

The AIW is the best card, so you're backing into the allowed XP systems. And based on the system, you may be backing into choice of HDD/SSD.

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  #9  
02-01-2025, 08:46 PM
cuckoohaus cuckoohaus is offline
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dearest Lord Smurf,

any insight and replies from you are like the tall, dark obelisk from 2001: A Space Odyssey where every bit of insight leads to another breakthrough in my workflow and expands my novice understanding of the analog capture pipeline. your hot swap rack insight has been a game changer. thank you. no more 1:1 wait times for file transfers. you're an immensely valuable teacher.

there are still a few issues with my captures causing great frustration and sleep disruption. my captures from my ATI TV Wonder 600 and Virtual Dub are not 4:3, my exports from selur hybrid exports video with out of sync audio as well as occasional jitteryness which i've seen you address in an older post. i've read your comment in another forum stating i may need to export at 29.97 instead of 59.94. capture pin settings appears to be the only place i can change the resolution and aspect ratio from 720 x 480 to 640 x 480 but avoided doing so as i assumed the other grayed out menu settings for format and source is where the 4:3 option should have been but does not allow me to select.

i'm also noticing the captures from Virtual Dub don't appear to be interlaced so i'm hoping one of the settings in either Virtual Dub or in any of my hardware is doing any preemptive interlacing. i am not nearly as technical as most people in this forum, but i'm assuming setting my Panasonic ES-15 to "Progressive" is a mistake and might be causing issues? I will list all of my hardware and software settings below at the very end of this post in hope you can give me the digital web version of a smack upside the head lol.

because i am preparing a very long capture project involving over 200 tapes i wanted to ask about the capture card i am using. since i have been using the ATI TV Wonder 600 USB "dongle" as I have not been able to find the driver for ATI TV Wonder USB 2.0 (the larger grey box version which I also purchased from ebay) anywhere online and within the forum just a dead google drive link from a post in 2018. since i've yet to begin this months long project, do you think the difference between opting in for the AIW internal graphics card is substantial or negligible? if dynamic range and overall image quality is substantial i will definately add that to my inbox (insert photos of available ports). i would have used the gray box version i am just not sure of which page/link has the driver for it and not sure if it is referred to anything other than the ATI TV wonder USB 2.0. i do have the budget for the AIW capture card, just not a frame based TBC or VCR with line TBC built in unfortunately so i'm currently using the "passthrough" method. here are my results so far attemtping to digitize a fitness video a friend produced in the 80's:

video link 1 = export from selur hybrid with out of sync audio, *occasionally* jittery video in moments with camera movement
https://youtu.be/-Zj4OYjDiKM?si=9drRbhZRFHgB4Xop

video link 2 = video capture from ati tv wonder 600 and virtual dub, converted from original avi to high bitrate h.264 mp4 via handbreak
https://youtu.be/FZ2qhci9KdU?si=wWreD0PifOfdcE8C

here are all hardware and software settings. sorry for the length, tried to be as detailed as possible:

jvc hr-s 3500 settings
- video stabilization off
- video calibration off
- s-vhs mode on
- av compu-link set to on
- rear aux input set to video
- new shielded s video cables throughout entire setup from cables2go

dmr es15 settings
- video>black level control: input lighter, output level for composite & s-video darker
- tv screen (not sure if this setting makes a difference, including just in case it does)
- tv type 4:3 (480p) - note changing this to 480 doesn't change the aspect ratio issue but wanted to know if this is where the pre-emptive and unwanted de-interlacing is occurring?
- display>video
- progressive: on
- transfer: video
- line-in nr: off

virtual dub settings
- device: ati tv wonder 600 usb 2.0 (directshow)
- video source: video svideo
- i cannot select format, source, display, preview pin or crossbar 2 as these options are all grayed out - i assume additional options for correct 4:3 output may have been in these first few settings
- capture pin: video standard ntsc, frame rate 29.970, colorspace/compression yuy2, output size 720x480 (this is automatically set by default - should i change this to 640 x 480?), compression quality 1.0
- crossbar: input 2: video svideo in, output 0: video decoder out, link related streams is unchecked
- levels: brightness 137, contrast 32, hue 64, saturation 32, sharpness 2
- cropping: all offsets set to 0
- swap fields: unchecked
- noise reduction: enabled unchecked
- vertical reduction: none
- compression: huffyuv v2.1.1 - CCESP patch v0.2.2. format restrictions valid depths:24
- set custom format: 720 x 480, data format yuy2 - yuv 4:2:2 interleaved
- bt8x8 tweaked unchecked
- audio: set to 0 capture device, enable audio capture, raw capture format 48000hz, stereo 16-bit, no compression
- capture settings: frame rate 29.97
- capture timing summary: drop frames when captured frame are too close checked, insert null frames checked, null frame burst limit 10, sync audio to video by resampling selected, audio latency determination set to automatic, number of audio blocks to use at start set to 30, all other settings unchecked

selur hybrid settings - my goal is to get a clean higher-res file to bring into an editor so i can make basic edits, as well as crop/trim to remove overscan from the bottom before posting on vimeo/youtube for convenience
- base tab: default container mov, generate checked, processing: video - prores, audio - auto add (all)
- prores tab: encoder kostya, profile: proress 422, kostya customizing deselected, all other settings (vui, interlacing, add time code, etc) deselected, configuration: prores hybrid default
- crop/resize tab:
- base tab: picture crop setting checked (up value zero, left value 8, right value 8, bottom value 14), resize setting checked, picture resize settings - resize method 10 - bicubic spine, auto adjust setting checked, width to mod 2, target resolution 704 x 466, letterbox unchecked, pixel aspect ratio (par) settings - input PAR: 1 x 1, force input par type unchecked, convert output to par unchecked
- misc tab: all settings unchecked except: adjust keep resize for source and only i-frames in thr advanced auto crop options. minimum width/height mult: .7/.5, threshold/mod/count: 24/2/100, sections to scan: 9. classic scan and use ffmpeg unchecked
- ui tab: crop style: avisynth, color crop width/height red, if they are not modulo: 2. all steppings: 1
- filtering tab
- deinterlace/telecine tab: vapoursynth selected, interlace - top field first unchecked (unable to check?), auto deinterlace handling: qtgmc, input scan type: bottom field first 5.0 %, overwrite input scan type to: progressice unchecked, preset: medium, bob checked all other settings unchecked and/or grayed out
- vaporsynth tab: all settings unchecked, filter(s) set to all, input shows: Matrix: 601, Primes: ?, Transfer?, Luma: tv, FPS (C/S): 29.970 fps/29.970 fps, Frame count 81040, Res: 704x466. Output shows: matrx: 601, Luma:tv, FPS 59.94 fps, frame count: 162080, res: 704x466.
- no tabs and contextual settings changed or altered except denoise and sharpen
- denoise tab: all settings unchecked except qtgmc. qtgmc: input type 1, final temporal smoothing 1, sharpness 1.0 unchecked, ez denoise checked: 5.00, Neo checked, noise preset fast, ez keepgrain unchecked, denoiser: auto, match preset: default
- sharpen tab: everything unchecked except cas. cas: sharpness 0.2, planes luma only
- audio tab: a/v delay: 0, audio encoding options checked, bitrate: 320, complexity: low complexity, all other options unchecked,

i am happy for any small morsel or insight you share with me. i've already written a novel, but I did have one final question i'd like to squeeze into this post...

this may seem like the king of dumb questions, but i am asking since it's 2025 if any other software that also de-interlaces, de-noises, frame duplicates as good selur hybrid that happens to be available for mac or is selur hybrid still the standard? i am only asking because my p16 is a company machine that's closely monitored and having family videos. so if i could minimize my pipeline to my Windows XP machine for capture and M1 Pro Max Macbook pro that would be incredible as i hate having to rely on my company machine for hybrid. i assumed using parallels on my Mac not be an option but let me know if you believe otherwise. i am about to jump into a rabbithole of comparison videos between hybrid, davinci resolve and topaz but wanted your own personal take if any acceptable solutions have appeared on the horizon that happens to be cross-platform in 2025. i've read your response on videohelp on nov 2023 replying about topaz compared with hybrid but im just curious if you've had a change in heart since then and/or if there is something i can install on my macbook so i dont capture footage on a company machine. i am strapped financially otherwise id purchase a completely seperate PC.

thank you, thank you, thank you x 1,000,000. you are a compass for us lost and overwhelmed in this exciting but intimidating journey….


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  #10  
02-01-2025, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuckoohaus View Post
dearest Lord Smurf,
any insight and replies from you are like the tall, dark obelisk from 2001: A Space Odyssey where every bit of insight leads to another breakthrough in my workflow and expands my novice understanding of the analog capture pipeline. your hot swap rack insight has been a game changer. thank you. no more 1:1 wait times for file transfers. you're an immensely valuable teacher.


I'm trying to get more work done lately, stay offline a wee bit more. But after that kindness, I just have to take some time for your very long post. So, here goes... (replying as I read)

Quote:
my exports from selur hybrid exports video with out of sync audio as well as occasional jitteryness
I clicked the Youtube links already, and immediately noticed both issues. The jitter may be from the VCR, and it may need an alignment tweak. Gravity (and handling/storage) causes alignment to drift over time (5-10 year gaps, nothing less). That deck is 30 years old now, and I'd bet it's never had an alignment test.

The alignment could be causing the ES15 TBC to choke, which is unusual. In with-TBC JVC models, it's all internal to the VCR. The ES15 is stronger (but also crippled), and I've rarely seen it jitter in this way.

Hybrid, QTGMC, etc -- it has nothing to do with this.

Quote:
i'm also noticing the captures from Virtual Dub don't appear to be interlaced
I'd need to see an attached raw AVI capture, just mere seconds long (keep file size down). Youtube obliterates interlace.

Quote:
assuming setting my Panasonic ES-15 to "Progressive" is a mistake
Yes, mistake. Don't do that. (But I've still not rules out alignment.)

Quote:
because i am preparing a very long capture project involving over 200 tapes i wanted to ask about the capture card i am using. since i have been using the ATI TV Wonder 600 USB "dongle" as I have not been able to find the driver for ATI TV Wonder USB 2.0 (the larger grey box version which I also purchased from ebay) anywhere online and within the forum just a dead google drive link from a post in 2018.
Buying from eBay is never good. I've seen where capture cards misbehave -- mostly because those were stored in excessively hot location (barn, garage, attic, outdoor storage unit, etc). So we can't rule out the capture card having a fault either. (FYI, this is why I provide gear in the marketplace, as it removes unknowns.)

Quote:
i am just not sure of which page/link has the driver for it
Here: https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...html#post92558

Quote:
jvc hr-s 3500 settings
- av compu-link set to on
This does nothing.

Quote:
- s-vhs mode on
And for recording only. With 3500, it's just S-VHS tapes option, not ET.

Quote:
- rear aux input set to video
"video" = composite

Quote:
dmr es15 settings
- video>black level control: input lighter, output level for composite & s-video darker
Your tapes looked too light, so something is off here. Off-hand, I forget the settings, and cannot get to my ES15 right now.

Quote:
virtual dub settings
- i cannot select format, source, display, preview pin or crossbar 2 as these options are all grayed out - i assume additional options for correct 4:3 output may have been in these first few settings
Something is wrong.

... and I can't do any more for now, my MS is messing with me.

Skimming rest...

Quote:
using parallels on my Mac not be an option but let me know if you believe otherwise.
For software only, specifically Hybrid, Parallels may be fine. I've not yet tried, my Mac M2 Pro is unplugged for a while.

Quote:
i've read your response on videohelp on nov 2023 replying about topaz compared with hybrid but im just curious if you've had a change in heart since then
No, and waste of money.

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  #11  
02-01-2025, 11:31 PM
cuckoohaus cuckoohaus is offline
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Again I feel lucky to get even more additional insight with your response and it has given me more than enough insight and “homework” this week before progressing further. I previously researched JIS and slot screwdrivers but if you didn’t mind sharing what tools i’ll need, or better yet know of a tool kit with the bare essentials i’ll need for basic VCR maintenance and alignment I will add it to my inbox at breakneck speed.

I hope you get your much needed rest and repair time. 🙏🏻
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02-02-2025, 09:59 AM
aramkolt aramkolt is offline
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JIS screwdrivers were something I didn't know much about until recently. Basically they are almost indistinguishable from regular Phillips at a glance. If you're using high quality screwdrivers, you will rarely get caming out/slipping at the screwdriver interface to the head of the screws. They are, however, what likely what vintage VCRs made in Japan were actually assembled with. I personally like the regular Phillips Wera branded screwdrivers for Phillips and I very rarely have had any issues with slipping, but I did grab a basic "Vessel" branded set off of Amazon just in case I run into any problematic screws later down the road and I would say that the fit is slightly different. For the sorts of torques involved in most cases for consumer VCRs, you should be fine using regular Phillips if it is a high quality screwdriver. Personally I've not had slipping issues on the consumer JVCs or Panasonics.

Either way, there really are no Phillips/JIS screws involved with alignments other than the AC head (but those are rather easy to turn anyway), just flat blade screwdriver on P2 and P3 guides is usually all it would take. What's more important is having an analog oscilloscope to look at the RF as you adjust to get a flat and consistent waveform. You might just see from the RF that one head's signal looks way weaker than the other and that could indicate either a head clog or head damage to just one of the heads that probably isn't going to be fixed by aligning anything which is useful to know upfront.

To summarize, the way you know your current screwdrivers are not up to the task is if they cam out (meaning slip) on the head at the interface of the screwdriver and the head.

If you want to be fancy for the P2 P3 screwdrivers, you can cut a little notch in the center of the flat blade screwdriver so that you can center it and It'll be less likely to slip, though I think most people just use either regular screwdrivers or bits that come in electronics screwdriver kits that already have notched flat blade screwdriver tips. Those are technically called "spanner" bits I believe if you don't want to notch out an existing screwdriver something like a Dremel.

I will also say of the maybe 50 VCRs I've worked on, messing with the factory alignment is rarely needed or beneficial. Though since units acquired these days are used and have had who knows how many prior owners, it's hard to say whether someone else before you got it did some "non-beneficial" alignment changes.

The general recommendation if only certain tapes do not play well is to not mess with the alignment of your main deck since you could cause more harm than good for playback of all the tapes that it does well with.
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02-02-2025, 12:45 PM
cuckoohaus cuckoohaus is offline
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Thank you for this info ����. In comments on some youtube videos a few people people stressed the importance of getting a demagnetized or ceramic screwdriver and as a newb i’m not sure how much I should be worrying about that. I grew up being taught ANYTHING magnetic near anything involved with data or it’s transmission is a very bad idea so i’m not sure if they’re just referring to some screwdrivers with the strong magnets to aid the positioning and prevent the falling of screws. There are some videos of DIY repair enthusiasts on Youtube that i’ve watched do it with and without a scope, I was watching this video prior to seeing your post and he mentions a “very rare” screwdriver tool which drives me a bit crazy since he doesn’t specifically say what it’s called, but did reply and say a “small slot screwdriver” should work. It does agonize me a bit more thinking I might need to buy ANOTHER thing - a small analog TV - since I donated our last small CRT Sylvania TV/VCR combo a couple of years ago ����. If I could achieve this task with just an oscilloscope and my small modern 1080 TV that would be awesome.

https://youtu.be/iyUY7cFP9zw?si=Z_rAzqhCh3Hc-GNB

The closer I can get the exact thing I need (budget allowing) for a specific task the less chances of unnecessary headache I feel. Otherwise I will look for a small electronic screwdriver kit with the brand info you’ve given me in mind. If you have links or names of specific brand or a buy link of a trusty analog oscilloscope that you personally use that would also be amazing. Thanks again for all of your insight!

Last edited by cuckoohaus; 02-02-2025 at 12:56 PM.
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